U.S. and Iraq are officially winning:

[IntruderLS1]

From CNN.com: Bold text by yours truely...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- All major indicators of violence in Iraq have dropped by between 40 and 80 percent since February 2007, when President Bush committed an additional 30,000 troops to the war there, the Pentagon reported Monday.

Pentagon: Violence down in Iraq since 'surge' - CNN.com

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

So where are all the nay-sayers now?

 

[sspark]

Jolly good show ! Jolly good show indeed !!!!!! :smiley24:

 

[Peter Parka]

Well that's good news, still dosent justify the war in any way though.

 

[ssl]

Agreed, Peter.

I have been taught that all wars are for resources, possibly including land. Since the area is not the best for acquiring land past a couple of military bases for operations in the region, there are other resources to consider, namely oil; the spreading of democracy is a cloak over the real issue.

Unfortunately, the spreading of democracy is just like spreading the propaganda of racial superiority. That is my opinion, and would not mind fielding questions about such, but I am not going to debate my opinion just yet; the time is not neigh.

 

[Minor Axis]

That is good but the surge is not the only thing that happened. General Petraeus started managing the war differently and I'm not referring to the surge.

 

[Tim]

So if the cops bust through my door and trash my house looking for drugs that aren't there, shoot my kids and dog, turn off my heat, water and empty my refrigerator... I should be happy if they have the place 40 to 80 percent cleaned up after 6 years?

Sure, less violence is GREAT news for our troops over there and I am very glad to hear about it, but it doesn't address the millions of lives that were destroyed over a lie.

 

[Minor Axis]

Sure, less violence is GREAT news for our troops over there and I am very glad to hear about it, but it doesn't address the millions of lives that were destroyed over a lie.

I prefer my falling into "a giant shit hole" analogy. (When it comes to Iraq it's really hard to post any smilies.)

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

So if the cops bust through my door and trash my house looking for drugs that aren't there, shoot my kids and dog, turn off my heat, water and empty my refrigerator... I should be happy if they have the place 40 to 80 percent cleaned up after 6 years?

Sure, less violence is GREAT news for our troops over there and I am very glad to hear about it, but it doesn't address the millions of lives that were destroyed over a lie.

:clap:clap

I was just reading an article in Men's Journal about Patraeus, he's a very interesting guy, ironically his thesis at Princeton was on lessons learned from Vietnam.

His personal assimilation to this war was that fundementally they are the same (somewhere in the back of my mind I get this feeling he doesn't think we belong there either) but he is a steadfast American, and highest ranking official in the US millitary, but his theory, is that urban combat is part hard targeting, and part soft targeting...

Essentially, you kill the bad guys, but you get the lights turned back on for the good guys.

Perhaps Halliburton and KBR need another trillion dollars for lightbulbs:dunno

 

[Carthage]

So if the cops bust through my door and trash my house looking for drugs that aren't there, shoot my kids and dog, turn off my heat, water and empty my refrigerator... I should be happy if they have the place 40 to 80 percent cleaned up after 6 years?.

Psst! You left out how you're a genocidal dictator who beat your kids and raped your wife and tried to steal your starving neighbors food.

 

[Tim]

Psst! You left out how you're a genocidal dictator who beat your kids and raped your wife and tried to steal your starving neighbors food.

Ok, so I beat my kids.... at least they were alive.



You guys will never get it. War is no big deal to you at all is it? You only get to see the sanitized version the evening news puts out. The hundreds of thousands dead, millions who are homeless or displaced and every day fucking misery they endure... But Saddam is dead, Yay!
There are 1001 different ways to get rid of a dictator without blowing up his country and killing the people you are trying to protect...
When you see a rat in your kitchen, you don't burn the house down to get rid of him. You just kill the rat. It isn't fucking rocket science

 

[Minor Axis]

Psst! You left out how you're a genocidal dictator who beat your kids and raped your wife and tried to steal your starving neighbors food.

Psst! The U.S. has enjoyed relationships with Dictators for many years, and yes even Saddam- come on...

 

[FreeWorkVest]

We are stuck in Iraq. We made a mess we can never clean up. This Bush presidency will go down and the most corrupt in US history. This is nothing more than a chance to enrich Haliburton. Sadaam was no thread. The original war was over Kuait slant drilling into Iraq. Sadaam was, until that point, a friend of the US. Iraq has too many different groups fighting for power to be stable without a strong hand as leader who will slowly bring freedom.

 

[dt3]

We made a mess we can never clean up.

The whole point of the article is that we ARE cleaning it up. :nod:

 

[Zorak]

The whole point of the article is that we ARE cleaning it up. :nod:

No we're not, and we never will.

I find it increasingly amazing that governments in the US & UK insist on fighting wars against indigenous armies, they will wait you out. They always do.
Vietnam, Northern Ireland, it's always the same : Waste millions of lives before giving up and pulling out because it's impossible to defeat Guerilla warfare

 

[Carthage]

Psst! The U.S. has enjoyed relationships with Dictators for many years, and yes even Saddam- come on...

Yes, but mostly it was in the cold war, in a desperate struggle to destroy communism. I can understand having to get in bed with some people you might not like to destroy communism.
But on non-red related cases, we have made mistakes with our allies (ex. Arabia)

 

[Minor Axis]

The whole point of the article is that we ARE cleaning it up. :nod:

Today from NPR: Bagdad has seen a significant drop in violence, but at what cost? Concrete walls, check points, and armed guards has hindered the ability to regain economic stability...

We are stuck in Iraq. We made a mess we can never clean up. This Bush presidency will go down and the most corrupt in US history. This is nothing more than a chance to enrich Haliburton. Sadaam was no thread. The original war was over Kuait slant drilling into Iraq. Sadaam was, until that point, a friend of the US. Iraq has too many different groups fighting for power to be stable without a strong hand as leader who will slowly bring freedom.

Yesterday From NPR: KBR a subsidiary of Haliburton has received an astonishing 30 Billion dollars since the war has started from a No-Bid Cost Plus contract. They have been accused of torching trucks with minor break downs, as minor as getting a flat tire and billing for a new one. The U.S. military pays bills for millions of dollars without any accounting what so ever.

This is one of the biggest make-your-friends rich scams fostered by those in charge of government in my lifetime.

 

[dt3]

No we're not, and we never will.

I find it increasingly amazing that governments in the US & UK insist on fighting wars against indigenous armies, they will wait you out. They always do.
Vietnam, Northern Ireland, it's always the same : Waste millions of lives before giving up and pulling out because it's impossible to defeat Guerilla warfare

Listen to what you're saying. Basically, if anyone ever decides to fight a guerilla-type war against us, we should just quit. That's insane.

Guerilla warfare CAN be defeated, but it takes a long time, often more than "conventional" warfare. It takes a truly dedicated country to defeat guerillas, which is exactly why I've never had a problem with us staying in Iraq.

 

[dt3]

Today from NPR: Bagdad has seen a significant drop in violence, but at what cost? Concrete walls, check points, and armed guards has hindered the ability to regain economic stability...

Think about it for a minute. Are you (or NPR) saying that while the violence was high, there was economic stability? That's complete nonsense.

 

[Minor Axis]

Listen to what you're saying. Basically, if anyone ever decides to fight a guerilla-type war against us, we should just quit. That's insane.

Guerilla warfare CAN be defeated, but it takes a long time, often more than "conventional" warfare. It takes a truly dedicated country to defeat guerillas, which is exactly why I've never had a problem with us staying in Iraq.

Actually they have all the time in the world as they live there. We are hemorrhaging this countries future on a war that did not need to be fought. Let's talk about insane...