Trayvon Martin- Tragedy

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Jaybird

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Why was Zimmernam following Martin in the first pace after being told not to?

He did this. The other did that. Meh. None of us know. And once again, you have no evidence that he was actually following anyone. Someone running to see where someone else ran...is not following. Not that 'following' is a crime in this country.

None of it is criminal activity, until one person attacked the other. There is the rub Johnny. Just face the facts. This case is a loser. The quicker you accept that, the better you will feel in the end.

BTW, you never answered me. How will you feel if the GJ comes back and says Zimmerman should not be charged with anything? It may not happen. They may feel some 'pressure' to come up with something now. Of course, that is not how justice is supposed to work. But who cares about justice anymore when you have a mob behind you. Right? Yeah. This whole thing is a perversion of actual justice. Pushed down the throats by Rev Al "Boy who cried wolf" Sharpton. But....whatever.
 
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Alien Allen

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Fuck you Jaybird. You are no independent. You exhibit all the signs of right wing asshattery with that dipshit comment. Nothing worse that a conservobot fucking liar. Go spew that right wing shit at your right wing gun forum.
Posts like this make you look like a troll.

Are you the political version of a born again that has no tolerance for anybody with a dissenting opinion?

You were not attacked personally as far as I recall but you sure are making it personal
 

Johnfromokc

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Did I touch a nerve there John? Is MSNBC your favorite TV show? I bet you have it on right now, dontcha?

Nope. Don't even have cabe TV. You just showed your true right wing colors you fucking liar. And to think I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there for a moment.

Oh, I am no Fox News lover. I know they are biased. I laugh at them sometimes. I also laugh at MSNBC, because they are just as biased, just the other way. CNN? Meh. They arent too bad. They lean a bit liberal. It really depends on the story with them. You have to watch all three though to get a full picture. Or better yet, read as much as you can on the Internet, on both sides. Because it is increasingly difficult to find any 'unbiased' news reporting anymore.

Dude - I no more believe your bullshit claims than I believe cotton candy is floating out of your ass. You say you are unbiased but turn right around with your right wing talking points in the next breath. Schizophrenia?

But if you think I am no independent because I think Fox is biased one way, and MSNBC is biased the other way....well, that is just your opinion. And a wrong opinion. HAHA

I think you are no independent because of the right wing buzz words you lace through out your posts. You start looking like you have a little common semnse, then you go right back to your gun forum bullshit.

You say the same shit I read at Free Republic and other gun nut-job forums that are vehemetly defending Zimmerman beyond all reason and then claim objectivity. Sorry - not buying your bullshit independent claim.
 

The Man

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And that's exactly where the killing took place - where Zimmerman had a clean line of sight. How about that?



Yes. Up until Zimmerman approached Martin according to the girlfriend. Then, as she said, the line went dead. Her testimony refutes Zimmermans claim that Martin approached him.

Are you saying he was shot from a distance?
He was shot in the chest right....and do we are agree that Zimmerman did receive abrasions etc and was assaulted.
ALL phone calls used to be be recorded and be on file for 24 hours{at least it was that way a few years ago}..not sure now though especially with cell phone in the equation now.
Thing is they very very rarely brought them into evidence as them didnt want to make it public knowledge.
However they would use the phone call recording to assemble a case around.

But even if Zimmerman did approach the guy...we still dont know why a battle took place.
But it would look bad for Zimmerman for sure as he supposedly stated he was approached...its getting back to being complicated again LOL

If Zimmerman is a known conservative and the GF of the one shot is a liberal...I would have to take take Zimmerman's word over hers.:rolleyes:
 

Johnfromokc

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Posts like this make you look like a troll.

Ahhhh...falling back on the old troll word again Allen? I thought you had moved beyond that. Guess not.

Are you the political version of a born again that has no tolerance for anybody with a dissenting opinion?

I can tolerate dissent, but I despise a fucking liar.

You were not attacked personally as far as I recall but you sure are making it personal

I'm just calling right wing asshattery the way I see it. When someone claims objectivity in one breath and then pulls liberal media card and other right wing points in the next, they're a fucking liar.

I tried like hell to avoid believing that the discussion was being twisted by right wing and left wing politics until I looked up that photograph of the crime scene that was linked to Free Republic.com and saw the same buzz words being used there that Jaybird was using here.

That is just as biased and fucked up as the race pimping done by Sharpton and Jackson.
 

Jaybird

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Nope. Don't even have cabe TV. You just showed your true right wing colors you fucking liar. And to think I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there for a moment.

Dude - I no more believe your bullshit claims than I believe cotton candy is floating out of your ass. You say you are unbiased but turn right around with your right wing talking points in the next breath. Schizophrenia?

I think you are no independent because of the right wing buzz words you lace through out your posts. You start looking like you have a little common semnse, then you go right back to your gun forum bullshit.

You say the same shit I read at Free Republic and other gun nut-job forums that are vehemetly defending Zimmerman beyond all reason and then claim objectivity. Sorry - not buying your bullshit independent claim.

Why do you hang out at Free Republic and gun nut forums so much? I certainly dont. The one gun forum I spoke of, I have about the same amount of posts on, that I have on here. And I have only been here like a month. I mostly use it to buy and look at firearms, and make funny posts occassionally. And I had never heard of Free Republic until you mentioned it. You can believe that or not though Johnny. I just dont care.

But....Cotton Candy. Mmmmmm. That sounds yummy. :p
 
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Jaybird

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Are you saying he was shot from a distance?
He was shot in the chest right....and do we are agree that Zimmerman did receive abrasions etc and was assaulted.
ALL phone calls used to be be recorded and be on file for 24 hours{at least it was that way a few years ago}..not sure now though especially with cell phone in the equation now.
Thing is they very very rarely brought them into evidence as them didnt want to make it public knowledge.
However they would use the phone call recording to assemble a case around.

But even if Zimmerman did approach the guy...we still dont know why a battle took place.
But it would look bad for Zimmerman for sure as he supposedly stated he was approached...its getting back to being complicated again LOL

If Zimmerman is a known conservative and the GF of the one shot is a liberal...I would have to take take Zimmerman's word over hers.:rolleyes:

HAHA.

But on the 'distance' shooting. There is no evidence for that. And the eye witness put Martin on top of Zimmerman(with Z-man yelling for help) moments before the shooting. That much we do know. So no. No evidence for a shot from any 'distance' and evidence to say it was up very close. And I am sure the PD would have looked at GS residue and powder burns as well. But we just dont know any of that. I am sure the DA does though.
 

The Man

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HAHA.

But on the 'distance' shooting. There is no evidence for that. And the eye witness put Martin on top of Zimmerman(with Z-man yelling for help) moments before the shooting. That much we do know. So no. No evidence for a shot from any 'distance' and evidence to say it was up very close. And I am sure the PD would have looked at GS residue and powder burns as well. But we just dont know any of that. I am sure the DA does though.

Yes.
Powder, casing ,body...and there you have it.

The fact that Zimmerman was beat up weighs heavily with me.


If nothing else becomes of this hopefully the world has learned....that a gated community watchdog just might be packing

Not totally related but somewhat..if your chances of being shot are higher things are much different.
Where I am at residential burglary is very very low...not because of the punishment but because...here they pack and will blow your ass away
Same if they see you prowling around the house.....they will shoot you.
 

Johnfromokc

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Are you saying he was shot from a distance?

No. The line of sight issue speaks to the fact that neighborhood watchers are instructed to observe from a distance and await the police. They are never to approach a suspect. The point is that Zimmerman had plenty of space to observe without getting anywhere near Martin in the first place.

He was shot in the chest right....and do we are agree that Zimmerman did receive abrasions etc and was assaulted.

Agreed. There was indeed an altercation, and it does appear that Zimmerman was injured. The question is why was Zimmerman inside Martins personal space in the first place when he had been told by the SPD Crime Prevention Officer to never do that, and was told by the SPD operator not to follow Martin?

I really do not understand why some people gloss over those facts and try and say Zimmerman had some divine right to defend himself that Martin did not.

ALL phone calls used to be be recorded and be on file for 24 hours{at least it was that way a few years ago}..not sure now though especially with cell phone in the equation now.
Thing is they very very rarely brought them into evidence as them didnt want to make it public knowledge.
However they would use the phone call recording to assemble a case around.

Now that is a new one on me. I have never heard of such. Phone records are available that might back up my assertion that Zimmerman was the agressor - or admittedly could back up Zimmermans claim. The only way we will know is by examining the evidence.

But even if Zimmerman did approach the guy...we still dont know why a battle took place.But it would look bad for Zimmerman for sure as he supposedly stated he was approached...its getting back to being complicated again LOL

This goes back to Zimmermans willful ignoring of his training and the instructions of the SPD operator to not follow Martin. Zimmerman cause this incident to take place.

If Zimmerman is a known conservative and the GF of the one shot is a liberal...I would have to take take Zimmerman's word over hers.:rolleyes:

I doubt either Martin or the girl knew/know much of anything about politics. They were probably concerned about when they might get to see each other next. Thanks to Zimmerman and his vigilante attitude, that will never happen. Two sets of parents are going through the worst possible nightmare solely because Zimmerman just had to follow Martin. Zimmerman could have stayed in his truck and driven around the circle and kept watch on Martin. There was no reason to approach Martin on foot. And now, Zimmermans parents may well lose their son to the prison system - and you can bet he will be a popular inmate if that happens.
 

Johnfromokc

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He did this. The other did that. Meh. None of us know. And once again, you have no evidence that he was actually following anyone. Someone running to see where someone else ran...is not following. Not that 'following' is a crime in this country.

See - you are biased toward Zimmerman and ignore that Zimmerman had the choice to avoid confronting Martin. You are not remotely objective. You are seeking to justify the killing for some percieved gun rights issue. Are you one of those nut jobs that fears the government is going to come knocking at your door and take your guns?

None of it is criminal activity, until one person attacked the other. There is the rub Johnny. Just face the facts. This case is a loser. The quicker you accept that, the better you will feel in the end.

I see you have been PMing with Allen and having a little mutual conservative masturbation session eh Jayturd? Won't be playing that little game. ;) Usually people who trot out the troll word are themselves trolls. You and Allen will make good pals. You kids enjoy yourselves.

You don't want just the facts. You ignore key points in the 911 transcripts and keep trying to blame Martin for the altercation which should have been avoided by Zimmerman. You are just as fucked up and biased as the race pimps on the other side.

BTW, you never answered me. How will you feel if the GJ comes back and says Zimmerman should not be charged with anything? It may not happen. They may feel some 'pressure' to come up with something now. Of course, that is not how justice is supposed to work. But who cares about justice anymore when you have a mob behind you. Right? Yeah. This whole thing is a perversion of actual justice. Pushed down the throats by Rev Al "Boy who cried wolf" Sharpton. But....whatever.

You are the right wing version of Sharpton and Jackson with your own perversion of justice. Your are simply not bright enough to see through your own bias and haze. Justice to you is letting Zimmerman go and blaming Martin for his own death.

I already answered and you would have seen it were it not for your self induced case of Cranial Rectumitus. If a judge or jury exhonerates Zimmerman at any point I can live with it. But will the people who believe it is a racial issue let it go? That is another question. Many in the black community feel extremely aggrieved by this issue and there is a powder keg out there right now with a short fuse. Lets hope the feds guide the local prosecutors well and that they put forth a vigorous case. Anymore half-assed attempts at justice won't be accepted by the black community. Lets hope you don't live in the wrong neighborhood if that happens.
 

The Man

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No. The line of sight issue speaks to the fact that neighborhood watchers are instructed to observe from a distance and await the police. They are never to approach a suspect. The point is that Zimmerman had plenty of space to observe without getting anywhere near Martin in the first place.



Agreed. There was indeed an altercation, and it does appear that Zimmerman was injured. The question is why was Zimmerman inside Martins personal space in the first place when he had been told by the SPD Crime Prevention Officer to never do that, and was told by the SPD operator not to follow Martin?

I really do not understand why some people gloss over those facts and try and say Zimmerman had some divine right to defend himself that Martin did not.



Now that is a new one on me. I have never heard of such. Phone records are available that might back up my assertion that Zimmerman was the agressor - or admittedly could back up Zimmermans claim. The only way we will know is by examining the evidence.



This goes back to Zimmermans willful ignoring of his training and the instructions of the SPD operator to not follow Martin. Zimmerman cause this incident to take place.



I doubt either Martin or the girl knew/know much of anything about politics. They were probably concerned about when they might get to see each other next. Thanks to Zimmerman and his vigilante attitude, that will never happen. Two sets of parents are going through the worst possible nightmare solely because Zimmerman just had to follow Martin. Zimmerman could have stayed in his truck and driven around the circle and kept watch on Martin. There was no reason to approach Martin on foot. And now, Zimmermans parents may well lose their son to the prison system - and you can bet he will be a popular inmate if that happens.

No. The line of sight issue speaks to the fact that neighborhood watchers are instructed to observe from a distance and await the police. They are never to approach a suspect. The point is that Zimmerman had plenty of space to observe without getting anywhere near Martin in the first place

I didnt see much in the way of clean line of sight unless one was already in between the two buildings...and a possible view from a narrow place in the street...in order to keep him in your site you pretty much have to be in that complex in between the buildings or lose him.


Agreed. There was indeed an altercation, and it does appear that Zimmerman was injured. The question is why was Zimmerman inside Martins personal space in the first place when he had been told by the SPD Crime Prevention Officer to never do that, and was told by the SPD operator not to follow Martin?

I really do not understand why some people gloss over those facts and try and say Zimmerman had some divine right to defend himself that Martin did not.

We dont know that he was inside his personal space for sure,,but none the less a watchman coming up to ask questions{if that is what happened} didnt give the guy the right to attack.

Agreed he was told not to follow,,,but that is for his own safety and not an "order"
Which still makes us come back to exactly what happened during the altercation.

Now that is a new one on me. I have never heard of such. Phone records are available that might back up my assertion that Zimmerman was the agressor - or admittedly could back up Zimmermans claim. The only way we will know is by examining the evidence.

Thats just it they dont use them for evidence in state trials..but only for investigative purposes.
So lets say a guy robs a bank..they find out who because of a phone call...now they know who to assemble a case on.
This goes back to Zimmermans willful ignoring of his training and the instructions of the SPD operator to not follow Martin. Zimmerman cause this incident to take place.

It could have been avoided yes....however those are just suggestions and not orders.
If he hadnt called the police..the very same thing still would have happened if all other conditions remained the same.

I doubt either Martin or the girl knew/know much of anything about politics. They were probably concerned about when they might get to see each other next. Thanks to Zimmerman and his vigilante attitude, that will never happen. Two sets of parents are going through the worst possible nightmare solely because Zimmerman just had to follow Martin. Zimmerman could have stayed in his truck and driven around the circle and kept watch on Martin. There was no reason to approach Martin on foot. And now, Zimmermans parents may well lose their son to the prison system - and you can bet he will be a popular inmate if that happens.

Damn John you are getting good with this softer side...almost made me tear up over here
:cool
 

Jaybird

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The attorney counseling George Zimmerman, who shot unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin as he was walking home from the store with a bag of Skittles, says if charges are filed, Zimmerman will argue that he acted in self-defense and that Florida's stand-your-ground law applies.
Attorney Craig Sonner said the public is only hearing part of the story, and when all the facts come out, it will be clear that Zimmerman acted in self defense. A grand jury is scheduled to begin hearing the case April 10.
"George Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, and had an injury to the back of his head, he was attacked by Trayvon Martin on that evening," Sonner said. "This was a case of self defense."
When asked why Zimmerman went after Martin, even though a 911 dispatcher told him not to, Sonner said: "Those are questions that will be answered."
Sonner said the so-called stand-your-ground law, under which a person who feels threatened is not required to retreat and can "meet force with force" if attacked, will be applicable in the case.
Sonner insisted that Zimmerman is not a racist, pointing out that he and his wife mentored for two black children for free.







"When I asked this mother [of the mentees], who trusted [Zimmerman and his wife], and she's an African-American, if she trusted George Zimmerman, she said she did, and I asked her if there was anything that caused her to believe that she was a racist, and she said, 'Absolutely not.' And I said, went further, 'Did you ever hear him use racial slurs in any time that you'd been around him?' And she said, 'no' as well," Sonner said.
Joe Oliver, a family friend of Zimmerman's who spoke with him this weekend, told ABC News that as a volunteer community watch commander, Zimmerman had to look out for suspicious-looking people.
"There are people who have accused George of profiling, well, I would think as a watch commander you are keeping an eye out for people you don't recognize in your neighborhood," Oliver said.
"The reason why he was following this suspicious person that he saw was because the neighborhood had a rash of break-ins," he said. "George had no intention of taking anyone's life. He cried for days after."
Oliver said the headlines have taken a toll on Zimmerman, his wife, and his family.
"He's moved, they've disconnected their phone numbers, they're in hiding, they're fearful," Oliver said.
The Zimmerman family friend also denied that a word the watchman is heard blurting out on one of the 911 tapes is the racial slur, "coon." Oliver said the word he hears Zimmerman saying is "goon."
"As far as, I mean as far as George being racist, I didn't take it as a racist term. I heard 'goon' and talking to my teenage daughter, apparently goon is a term of endearment in high school these days," he said.
"He wasn't talking to Trayvon when that comment was made. He was speaking a generality in that this suspicious person was someone who he – lumped in -- as always getting away -- goon, coon. I mean, the bottom line, he thought he needed to keep an eye on this individual for whatever reason," Oliver said.
Oliver said he believes the voice screaming for help on the 911 tape is Zimmerman's.
After talking with Zimmerman, Oliver says he's convinced that it came down to a final life-or-death moment: "At that point, either George or Trayvon was going to die."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...eak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256

There is alot said in that final statement in bold. I know you would have to read between the lines. But, if it really was a situation, where Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and saw that Zimmerman had a gun on him, and there was a struggle for the gun? Yeah. Totally 100% justified no matter who was following whom or what really happened previously imo. Martin would certainly not be the sweet and innocent kid walking home with skittles in his pocket if he is on top of someone beating the shit out of them, and then going for his gun. And someone was going to end up dead.

John. I say, if my beliefs are correct, no charges will be filed out of the Grand Jury. I would love to get an answer from you on how you will feel if that happens.
 

Honey Bunny

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But....Cotton Candy. Mmmmmm. That sounds yummy. :p


I don't care how cute your bum is or how good the cotton candy that floats out of it is. I am not eating it mister! Thanks to this thread all i can imagine is cotton candy coming from Jays butt. I may be ruined on it forever now. :p
 

Jaybird

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I don't care how cute your bum is or how good the cotton candy that floats out of it is. I am not eating it mister! Thanks to this thread all i can imagine is cotton candy coming from Jays butt. I may be ruined on it forever now. :p

Awww. Come on. I would be the talk of the town. I could work fairs, and sell my butt cotton candy for cheap. It could eventually become the 'next thing'. It could be bigger than deep fried twinkees. :p
 

Jaybird

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John. I just noticed this post of yours. And I was gonna answer all of your personal attacks, but then I realized I would just be stooping to your level.


See - you are biased toward Zimmerman and ignore that Zimmerman had the choice to avoid confronting Martin. You are not remotely objective. You are seeking to justify the killing for some percieved gun rights issue. Are you one of those nut jobs that fears the government is going to come knocking at your door and take your guns?
I didnt ignore anything Johnny. There is no evidence that Zimmerman actually 'confronted' Martin. That is all I will say on that matter.


I see you have been PMing with Allen and having a little mutual conservative masturbation session eh Jayturd? Won't be playing that little game. ;) Usually people who trot out the troll word are themselves trolls. You and Allen will make good pals. You kids enjoy yourselves.
I almost took your bait here, and stooped down low. But FYI. I have never PM'd anyone in regards to this. Nor ever PM's Allen. Again, that is all I am going to say

You don't want just the facts. You ignore key points in the 911 transcripts and keep trying to blame Martin for the altercation which should have been avoided by Zimmerman. You are just as fucked up and biased as the race pimps on the other side.
I am not blaming anyone. I am looking at the facts. If the person you think is the victim, is not actually the victim, thats tuff luck. Sorry. I still feel bad for his family. But that doesnt mean I am going to distort the way I see things, just because I feel bad for someone. What I am doing is actually the definition of...un-biased. IE, looking at the facts, and the laws, and deciding what one can be charged with absent of emotions. If you dont like that, than I am glad you are not my state prosecution.


You are the right wing version of Sharpton and Jackson with your own perversion of justice. Your are simply not bright enough to see through your own bias and haze. Justice to you is letting Zimmerman go and blaming Martin for his own death.
I had to remove my own comments here. I really did stoop down to your level. But......in other news.....

Justice to me, is based on the Law. Not by mob rule. Not because I feel bad for someone or the other. Sorry. That is the way justice is supposed to be applied.

I already answered and you would have seen it were it not for your self induced case of Cranial Rectumitus. If a judge or jury exhonerates Zimmerman at any point I can live with it. But will the people who believe it is a racial issue let it go? That is another question. Many in the black community feel extremely aggrieved by this issue and there is a powder keg out there right now with a short fuse. Lets hope the feds guide the local prosecutors well and that they put forth a vigorous case. Anymore half-assed attempts at justice won't be accepted by the black community. Lets hope you don't live in the wrong neighborhood if that happens.
And now we come to the only reason I bothered to respond to this....wacked out post full of character assassinations that I have ignored. Below is very important IMO.

Well, you didnt really answer it. Not having charges filed because the Grand Jury decides he should not be charged with anything is not the same as a Judge or a Jury. Do you know what a Grand Jury is? And what a Grand Jury does? It doesnt try anyone, and typically there in no judge presiding. It simply does the Prosecutions job, in high profile cases. It determines if someone is going to be charged with a crime and then actually see trial time. In this case, since the Prosecution had already determined that Zimmerman should not be charged, I see the GJ as a dog and pony show. Basically, a way to show that they are doing something. It doesnt mean that the GJ will decide differently than the Prosecutors. Of course, what it sounds like you are saying, is that if the mob doesnt get what it wants out of the justice system, they will take to their own vigilante justice. Do you think that is right? That is basically a threat. And holding our justice system hostage. That.....is a perversion of justice. Not actual justice. It is mob rule. Is that what you want? I dont. That is not how our judicial system is supposed to work. If it works in this case, than this country's judicial system has become....the rule of the mob. Now, thats fucked up John. I dont care who threatens what....the wheels of justice should not be subjected to mob rule. I would rather take my chances with the mob becoming unruly, than turn over the keys to the kingdom to the mob. Hopefully the people on the GJ have some high moral character, and dont succumb to threats, or we really are fucked, and the rule of law is meaningless in this country.
 

Joe the meek

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Nope. Don't even have cabe TV. You just showed your true right wing colors you fucking liar. And to think I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt there for a moment.



Dude - I no more believe your bullshit claims than I believe cotton candy is floating out of your ass. You say you are unbiased but turn right around with your right wing talking points in the next breath. Schizophrenia?



I think you are no independent because of the right wing buzz words you lace through out your posts. You start looking like you have a little common semnse, then you go right back to your gun forum bullshit.

You say the same shit I read at Free Republic and other gun nut-job forums that are vehemetly defending Zimmerman beyond all reason and then claim objectivity. Sorry - not buying your bullshit independent claim.

John

I've known you for some time now, and although we've not always agreed on the same subjects, and at times you could make me bang my head against a wall, I've come to the conclusion that you're a much smarter man than myself, and I can say that I have had my own opinions change because of you.

That said, some of your personal attacks on this thread remind me of the "old John".
 
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