Your views and reasoning on this is Grade A..I have learned from it...anyone that has read your posts has learned from you..alot of people have re evaluated their positions due to your posts. :thumbup
Trayvon Martin- Tragedy
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Your views and reasoning on this is Grade A..I have learned from it...anyone that has read your posts has learned from you..alot of people have re evaluated their positions due to your posts. :thumbup
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Johnfromokc
Active Member
I'll consider that a compliment - The head-banging image is priceless. And thanks for the kind words. The truth is that you and me are a couple of dumbasses for spending all this time arguing with other dumbasses on the internet.
Yes, Joe, I did go after an individual who is exibiting fucktardery in epic proportions. Should have ignored it - but shit happens. I despise disingenuous liars and bigots with a hidden agenda. It has become increasingly popular for right wing moon bats to deny their agenda and claim objectivity. They repeat the same old talking points that come from FOX News and the rest of the right wing propaganda machine - but outright deny patronizing the programs and publications. Some people are so pro gun that they would rather see an innocent human being murdered and their murder go free. Some are so bigoted that they side with Zimmerman for the simple fact that Martin represented young black thugs in their mind. Others side with Zimmerman for no other reason than Sharpton, Jackson and the Black Panthers have become involved. They deny this of course - but their bullshit shines through like a beacon. This is evidenced by the continual reaching for justification of Zimmermans murder of Martin. Once Zimmerman exited his vehicle and followed Martin after being told not to he became fully responsible for his actions. But these "objective" bigots gloss completely over that fact and spend post after post attempting to twist the fact that Zimmerman set the entire course of events in motion and there simply is no justification for what Zimmerman did.
The people participating in this thread with any common sense whatsoever understand the entire chain of events was caused by Zimmermans decision to get out of the car and do what he knew full well he should not have done.
Common sense also dictates that there is no justification for what happened. Anyone who is attempting to justify Zimmermans actions should stand in front of a mirror and ask themselves why they are attempting to justify the murder of an unarmed minor. What the hell has happened to our society when our fellow citizens are reaching to justify one human hunting down and killing another for no good reason other than an out of control ego?
We had a huge discussion about this in history class. We talked about some political cartoons that have been made about this and we talked about racism and civil rights in general. I also chimed in about stereotyping as well. Also I have the news on and they just talked about this. I just heard that someone might've leaked that Trayvon (Nice name by the way) might have attacked this Zimmermen dude before the shooting.
Agreed,
But we can also look at it this way.....what are the chances of something like this turning into a shooting?...Pretty slim.
So IMO his judgement wasn't really that poor given the odds....it just turned out to be the wrong choice.
I would sure hate to see a law enacted where a neighborhood watchman had to stay in his vehicle rather find out who belongs in the complex and who doesnt
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As in a cop, prosecutor etc?
They say it MIGHT be a cop. But they dunno.
Hopefully they dont keep us in suspense to long
I do not think anyone is justifying anything. I know, I am trying to look at this from the facts and the law. If you want the law changed, go ahead and try to change it. But, if the reason this story was so twisted was for political reasons, well than I find that disgusting.
I feel for the Martin Family. I do. But facts are facts. And IF, Martin took this to Assault? If? Then he was assaulting someone when he was shot. And that is what self-defense is for. One doesn't need to have a weapon to be assaulting someone. If Zimmerman had no gun that day, and Martin put him in the hospital, Martin would most likely be up on Assault and Battery charges at a minimum, if the story happened the way I think it did. If Zimmerman had been a 65 year old guy, or a woman on the neighborhood watch? I dont think any of us would have heard of this story at all.
Did Zimmerman do some stupid things? Yes. But I honestly do not think he was 'stalking' anyone like it has been portrayed, nor even 'chasing anyone down'. If it can be proven that he was? Than you very well may have me here saying, he was clearly in the wrong. But we don't know that. We simply do not.
I also have no evidence that he was 'a loon with a gun' Sure, some have tried to portray that. Some have certainly skewed it to make it seem as such. But none of us know that. Would it be easier for me to believe he was a 'loon with a gun' so I could justify the mistakes he made that day, and in the process put all responsible gun owners under a microscope? Yes. But I wont do that. I will still try to be objective. Do I think the mistakes he made that day means he should be criminally responsible? I dont think so. Not based on Law.
Bottom line, we dont know what really happened that day. It could very well have been a tsunami of things circling together to create....a huge unfortunate calamity of mistakes that spiraled out of hand. Or, it could have been other things. We dont know. I wont speculate. I wish it never happened, just as I am sure both Martin's family and Zimmerman and his family all wish. But it did happen.
But if you think I should be here frying the guy and demanding that he belongs in jail, when we can all see how skewed this story was portrayed, and realize how few facts we actually have? Yeah. I wont do that. If that is what you want? I am not your guy. Sorry.
With all the information that is available so far, I believe that it is this event that started the whole chain of events as well. Does this mean Zimmerman was wanting to gun down Martin? Doesn't really mean that was his intentions (that we know of at this point.)
The whole thing boils down to: Did Zimmerman have justification for using deadly force on Martin?
Joe the meek
Active Member
It should be a little more than that.
The question should be did Zimmerman give Martin reason to believe his (Martins) life was in danger and he (Martin) was using force to protect himself? If the answer is yes, then Zimmerman should hang IMO.
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Oh. And I just found this. Remember all those reports that Zimmerman made 50 calls to 911 in the last 4 months? Remember, this was the evidence to portray him as some 'loon'? Right?
Well, what if I told you that those 50 calls were made over 8 years instead of 4 months?
How would that change peoples perceptions?
Yeah. Just one more example of the media making a big headline, and then coming back later to correct the story on page 10.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html
Read the whole story if you want.
It sounds like he was a bit of a curmudgeon. Probably very vigilant. But not some vigilante and crazed loon making 911 calls every day like has been portrayed.
Just one more notch on the media fuck ups and bias in this case. They are starting to paint a real bad picture of some agenda for this blatant miss reporting. It seems like someone was purposefully trying to assassinate Zimmerman's character, and the media soaked it up. But that is just my opinion.
Well, what if I told you that those 50 calls were made over 8 years instead of 4 months?
How would that change peoples perceptions?
Yeah. Just one more example of the media making a big headline, and then coming back later to correct the story on page 10.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/23/did-trayvon-shooter-abuse-911.html
Read the whole story if you want.
It sounds like he was a bit of a curmudgeon. Probably very vigilant. But not some vigilante and crazed loon making 911 calls every day like has been portrayed.
Just one more notch on the media fuck ups and bias in this case. They are starting to paint a real bad picture of some agenda for this blatant miss reporting. It seems like someone was purposefully trying to assassinate Zimmerman's character, and the media soaked it up. But that is just my opinion.
Everything about the way the media is all over this is sickening...it's not reporting news, it's swaying perceptions. The media has been on an downward slide for quite sometime but this one really takes the cake.
I'm trying to look at the facts, but my dead gawd the rubbish that has to be sorted through to get any.
I'm trying to look at the facts, but my dead gawd the rubbish that has to be sorted through to get any.
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
This is your standard reply when people don't agree with you. You call them liars and fucktards. Well John, I hate to break it to you but I have not watched on minute on this issue on Fox. You don't know me but your baseless accusations could be thrown back at you with your attitude. You sound just like the Sharptons and Jacksons who feed off these kind of issues.
This is not an issue that has anything to do with racism. Yet if one only read the headlines one would think it was a white guy that attacked out of the blue a young teenager. This has been distorted and you bought into it hook line and sinker. There is more to this story than just your one sided view.
Just because some of us have an open mind does not mean we are defending Zimmerman. We can see some gray areas which you don't. But don't stop being the only beacon of truth and final judge and jury. Sigh
The situation would never have happened if Zimmerman had stayed in the car. That is about all you have been correct about. Still does not make him a murderer. Maybe he is. But this alone is not a convictable offense.
Forget what has been done thus far by the DA and Police. It is now in the hands of higher authority. You won't be happy unless there is a trial. For one who claims to worry about peoples rights then why do you want to take a shit on peoples rights. A Grand Jury is not good enough? You really want to take that route where public opinion demands we bypass procedure in this case and go straight to trial?
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Exactly.
Agreed!
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
anybody want a primer on how the press drives things all they need to do is do a search for Malice Green
Two cops were crucified in the streets and the press fed off it
Thus one reason I am skeptical about stories like this and don't lap up what is spoon fed to us right from the get go.
Two cops were crucified in the streets and the press fed off it
Thus one reason I am skeptical about stories like this and don't lap up what is spoon fed to us right from the get go.
Joe the meek
Active Member
The thing is though, and it is a possibility, is that Zimmerman had no chance to retreat and he (Zimmerman) made no offensive movement towards Martin.
The way this story is unfolding is beyond a 3 ring circus.
At this point I really have no clue, but I have no doubt that due to public pressure, if there is any chance of getting Zimmerman, either the state or feds will. That said, if Zimmerman walks, I honestly don't know how you can hold Zimmerman to place all the blame on.
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Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
He may be totally to blame. We do not know all the facts in evidence.
I still have an open mind.
Agreed. This paints a different view as well ...
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/2...new-details-of-zimmermans-self-defense-claim/
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/2...new-details-of-zimmermans-self-defense-claim/
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
New information points out that Zimmerman, after the 911 operator said not to follow him, to which Zimmerman said "okay" might have not followed him after that, and was actually returning to his car. It is possible that Zimmerman was attacked by Trayvon at this point.
and all of you out for Zimmerman's head should take a breath and step back, we don't even know what happened yet. He could have acted in pure self-defense.
and all of you out for Zimmerman's head should take a breath and step back, we don't even know what happened yet. He could have acted in pure self-defense.
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