Trayvon Martin- Tragedy

[Mercury]

The only way we are going to find out is for the prosecutor to charge Zimmermen and force a criminal trial. Then, if Zimmerman is innocent, he can go free and justice has been served. But until there is a trial, there can be no claim of fairness or justice. Let's let the criminal justice system do its job.

True ... but I thought everyone was innocent until proven guilty?

I totally agree that an investigation should occur so that the truth can be learned from this terrible tragedy. I have no doubt that criminal charges will be pressed against Zimmerman and hopefully the truth will be found.

 

[Johnfromokc]

And here is the question...what was his actual physical size? Can you answer that?

According to the official police report here:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Martin was 6' 160#. I imagine Martins corpse was also weighed at the morgue, and that may come out eventually.

The more I read about this case, it isn't as clear cut as many who have protested how it's been handled says it is.

The Sanford PD may have a history of problems with investigations. From the Christian Science Monitor - Hardly a left wing publication:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest...rime-charge-against-George-Zimmerman/(page)/2

Another possibility is an investigation of the Sanford Police Department itself, including questions about whether any evidence was destroyed or covered up, or whether there has been a pattern of problems involving black people. City officials insist they did an appropriate and thorough investigation, but if such violations occurred federal prosecutors could bring civil rights conspiracy charges against anyone responsible. Bonaparte did acknowledge last week that the police department has had issues with the city's African-American residents.

For instance, in 2010, it took a month for investigators to arrest and charge the son of a police lieutenant who was accused of knocking out a homeless black man. The attack was captured on video.

Another question for you... who was the one crying for help? Many news stories I read on this topic imply it was Martin doing the crying.

I've listened to the 911 call many times. It seems two different voices crying out to me. I'm sure it will be thoroughly analyzed by prosecution and defense. The mother claims she heard Martins voice.

Nah, now that Sharpton has gotten involved it hasn't become a three ring circus.

If you would side with Zimmerman based on Sharptons involvement, then you, my friend, are far more fucked up than Sharpton. I do hope that's not the case Joe.

 

[Jaybird]

And here is the question...what was his actual physical size? Can you answer that?

The more I read about this case, it isn't as clear cut as many who have protested how it's been handled says it is.

Another question for you... who was the one crying for help? Many news stories I read on this topic imply it was Martin doing the crying. The FACT is news sells news, and sometimes it is hard separating fact from fiction.

As mentioned, from what I read from the Feds, they don't sound so sure that this is a "lock him up" case.

Nah, now that Sharpton has gotten involved it hasn't become a three ring circus.

Does anyone know what caliber gun was used?

I am pretty sure, that I originally heard that he was 6'3" in the Sun Sentinel like....the week that this happened. I have seen his weight reported all over the place though. But his height has always been either between 6' - 6'3" and Zimmerman's height of 5'9" I believe to be accurate. But even that could be iffy at this point.

As far as the gun. It was a Keltec 9mm as far as I know. 1 shot.

As far as the feds, I think they realize what kind of media circus this has become too, and once they looked at the details, they are unsure how to proceed as well. You can bet every little detail that comes through though, gets filtered all the way to the top. And the fact that the most the President would say is....this is a tragedy....which I completely agree with on many levels speaks volumes to me.

The feds and local authorities are asking for calm now. I think they are concerned about what may happen. I am too. I hear people everyday down hear talking about this case, and there are just so many distorted details. The media has done a fine job building a powder keg in this one.

 

[Johnfromokc]

True ... but I thought everyone was innocent until proven guilty?

Charging Zimmerman with some form of homocide does not equal guilt. "Innocent until proven guilty" applies after the charges have been filed. The state then has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

I totally agree that an investigation should occur so that the truth can be learned from this terrible tragedy. I have no doubt that criminal charges will be pressed against Zimmerman and hopefully the truth will be found.

This entire uproar is about the SPD appearing to sweep this killing under the rug. The on-duty prosecutor apparently declined to visit the crime scene that night.

Does that sound like an appropriate homicide investigation?

 

[Mercury]

The on-duty prosecutor apparently declined to visit the crime scene that night.

Does that sound like an appropriate homicide investigation?

Wow ... that is rather odd. Jeeze ... don't these guys know by now that they can't handle cases like this with such a lackluster approach?!?!

 

[CityGirl]

Joe, I read that the gun was a black Kel Tec 9 mm PF9.

 

[Joe the meek]

If you would side with Zimmerman based on Sharptons involvement, then you, my friend, are far more fucked up than Sharpton. I do hope that's not the case Joe.

Dude, give me a little more credit than that.

Sharpton does nothing but distract IMO.

 

[Alien Allen]

The only way we are going to find out is for the prosecutor to charge Zimmermen and force a criminal trial. Then, if Zimmerman is innocent, he can go free and justice has been served. But until there is a trial, there can be no claim of fairness or justice. Let's let the criminal justice system do its job.

The only way we are going to find out is for the prosecutor to charge Zimmermen

Are you really saying this? I can not believe you blieve that when there is a potential crime that the answer is to have a criminal trial. In this case the local police mucked things up. If the state police or whoever now is in charge finds it was self defense then that should be the end. If they think there is enough to go to trial that should be the end.

Let's let the criminal justice system do its job.

Agreed.. and that is what now is happening. Thus far it is being tried in the press which incomplete and appears to be sensationalized.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Honestly - what is with all the questions being asked here when everything is readily and easily available for viewing? The Sanford Police Department has even published several documents and the 911 calls here:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

And why are so many right wingers (not all of course) siding with Zimmerman? Any of the righties here care to chime in on that?

And in defense of the righties, I have seen several conservative opinions that Zimmerman should be charged and prosecuted - so all are not politically blind to common sense.

Conservatives - how about it?

 

[Jaybird]

If you would side with Zimmerman based on Sharptons involvement, then you, my friend, are far more fucked up than Sharpton. I do hope that's not the case Joe.

That is not fair. Sharpton has a history of creating media fire-storms based on lies. I grew up in NY. I was a young man in NY when Sharpton thrust himself onto the national stage with the Twana Brawley BS.

Which Sharpton was eventually found to be guilty of defamatory and bold faced lies in a court of law for.

Therefore Sharpton has a history of being a Liar. Simply put....The good reverend has a history of being the boy who cried wolf. And it is apparent to me, that he has done so again in this case. You can believe otherwise if you want.

 

[The Man]

Its probably already in the thread somewhere...but to save me alot of digging.
Do we have a reliable source that shows the young man approached the neighborhood watchman?
I for some reason was thinking it was there other way............them damn news sources again.

 

[Jaybird]

Honestly - what is with all the questions being asked here when everything is readily and easily available for viewing? The Sanford Police Department has even published several documents and the 911 calls here:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

And why are so many right wingers (not all of course) siding with Zimmerman? Any of the righties here care to chime in on that?

And in defense of the righties, I have seen several conservative opinions that Zimmerman should be charged and prosecuted - so all are not politically blind to common sense.

Conservatives - how about it?

What is your problem with trying to label anyone a 'conservative' that sees this story with more open eyes than you? Why are you trying to make this political? What is YOUR agenda John? What is YOUR political affiliation?

 

[Joe the meek]

That is not fair. Sharpton has a history of creating media fire-storms based on lies. I grew up in NY. I was a young man in NY when Sharpton thrust himself onto the national stage with the Twana Brawley BS.

Which Sharpton was eventually found to be guilty of defamatory and bold faced lies in a court of law for.

Therefore Sharpton has a history of being a Liar. Simply put....The good reverend has a history of being the boy who cried wolf. And it is apparent to me, that he has done so again in this case. You can believe otherwise if you want.

Ironically enough, some of my friends who happen to be Afro American call Sharpton the "N" word. Funny how they can get away with that.

 

[CityGirl]

I read that the prosecutor's decision to not respond to the scene of the shooting was based on the police investigator's assessment and interpretation of the evidence they had gathered.

 

[The Man]

Honestly - what is with all the questions being asked here when everything is readily and easily available for viewing? The Sanford Police Department has even published several documents and the 911 calls here:

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

And why are so many right wingers (not all of course) siding with Zimmerman? Any of the righties here care to chime in on that?

And in defense of the righties, I have seen several conservative opinions that Zimmerman should be charged and prosecuted - so all are not politically blind to common sense.

Conservatives - how about it?

Its not really a left or right issue..........wait...if the young man was a liberal...then dont charge the nightwatchman JK
Its actually about the altercation itself and if there was reasonable grounds that the nightwatchman was indeed in fear of his life or physical injury.
To have evidence it was murder rather than self defense before charging him with murder.
If that makes one a conservative then perhaps everyone should become a conservative

Thanks John I am neither right nor left...but that may change in the near future

 

[Jaybird]

Its probably already in the thread somewhere...but to save me alot of digging.
Do we have a reliable source that shows the young man approached the neighborhood watchman?
I for some reason was thinking it was there other way............them damn news sources again.

We have none. There is nothing we know 'as fact', for whom approached whom. None. Zero.

All we would have is Zimmerman's story, partially relayed through the city managers report that Zimmerman was walking back to his car when he was 'attacked'.

The city managers exact words..."Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/2...-answer-questions-about-teens-shooting-death/

There is the supposed GF of Martin, that says she was on the phone with Trayvon when the 'confrontation' happened.

But no actual eye witnesses, that we, the public, knows about. There could be though, but we do not know.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Are you really saying this? I can not believe you blieve that when there is a potential crime that the answer is to have a criminal trial. In this case the local police mucked things up. If the state police or whoever now is in charge finds it was self defense then that should be the end. If they think there is enough to go to trial that should be the end.

Yes Allen, that is EXACTLY what I am saying. A homocide was committed. There is enough evidence alone from Zimmermans "non-emergency" call to the police to warrant criminal charges. Look at the photographs of the condo complex and think it through Allen.

Agreed.. and that is what now is happening. Thus far it is being tried in the press which incomplete and appears to be sensationalized.

The press never would have ran with this had SPD and the prosecutor done their jobs on the night of the homocide. The perception that they were attempting to sweep the whole issue under the rug is the reason for the national outrage.

100% of alleged "justifiable" homocides should at minumum charge the shooter with homocide until the full facts are discovered. The charges could then be dropped by a judge at a preliminary hearing. Nobody should be able to so easily kill another human being and walk away as if nothing happened.

 

[Johnfromokc]

What is your problem with trying to label anyone a 'conservative' that sees this story with more open eyes than you? Why are you trying to make this political? What is YOUR agenda John? What is YOUR political affiliation?

I see a pattern of conservatives siding with Zimmerman. Do you disagree?

I am a former right winger of many years and know 100% of the right wings talking points by heart and have read more right wing propaganda and books than most professing conservatives. I went down the Libertarian road for a few years as well. Eventually, I came to see the hypocrisy of conservo-libertarianism and now consider myself an unapologetic Classical Liberal.

So, what's you political affiliation Jay?

 

[The Man]

We have none. There is nothing we know 'as fact', for whom approached whom. None. Zero.

All we would have is Zimmerman's story, partially relayed through the city managers report that Zimmerman was walking back to his car when he was 'attacked'.

The city managers exact words..."Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by Trayvon."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/2...-answer-questions-about-teens-shooting-death/

There is the supposed GF of Martin, that says she was on the phone with Trayvon when the 'confrontation' happened.

But no actual eye witnesses, that we, the public, knows about. There could be though, but we do not know.

If the nightwatchman was approached by this young man as said and we do know the young man whipped his ass This looks much better for the watchman.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Its not really a left or right issue..........wait...if the young man was a liberal...then dont charge the nightwatchman JK

I totally agree it's not a left or right issue and even if Zimmerman is a liberal, he should be charged and prosecuted. Homocide - the taking of a human life - is serious and should be vigorously investigated.

Its actually about the altercation itself and if there was reasonable grounds that the nightwatchman was indeed in fear of his life or physical injury.

It is about the altercation to be sure. All evidence and extenuating circumstances should be considered.

And Zimmerman was not a "night watchman". He was a resident of the neighborhood, and was the self-appointed "Neighborhood Watch Captain".

To have evidence it was murder rather than self defense before charging him with murder.

Murder? Maybe maybe not. I would say involuntary manslaughter most likely. I do not believe Zimmerman approached Martin with the intenet to kill him. However, Zimmerman did escalate the situation and that escalation ultimately led to the death of Martin.

If that makes one a conservative then perhaps everyone should become a conservative

Thanks John I am neither right nor left...but that may change in the near future

Wait a minute - I've seen you post that you are a conservative. Are you now denying that now? If so, I welcome to into the world of reason and logic with open arms.