Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

[Tuffdisc]

Doom, open mindedness does not mean accepting every hare-brained idea that comes down the pike.

The bible is fiction. Simply mentioning some middleeastern geography and a couple of caesars does not make it a non- fiction literary work. The best fiction writers weave some historical accuracy into their imaginary work. Think Michael Chriton, Tom Clancey and John Grisham.




Not true. Ask any reasonable individual to prove a negative and you will then need to overcome your own evidence of absence. The burden of proof of anyone claiming the existence of anything is always on the claimer to produce that which is claimed to exist.

I'm Agnostic in my religious thought process. When Jesus comes to my house and explains why he and his daddy fucked up this planet with all these idiotic humans whose goal it seems is to screw over their fellow humans for personal gain, then I'll believe.



You have not proved me wrong or proved anything else as yet.



Sorry doom - but I never claimed Abraham sacrificed Issac - I said the Abraham was WILLING to sacrifice his own son, as the fictional account was told in the bible.



This is why I put up the facepalm pics doom. You've convinced yourself, and only yourself of an imagined victory here.



Ahhhh...you are a bible scholar are you? So I take it you have actually read the bible completely through several times, right?

Don't lie now - your god will punish you for lying, just like the FSM did to Adam.

If you are Agnostic, why the heck are you bothered about these threads?

And you have said you have read the bible on only two occasions, that is really hardly enough to "study" the bible

 

[BornReady]

Of course you didn't need anyone to tell you when you are raised in a society that reflects this. You are claiming you came up with the idea that murder is wrong all by yourself without any outside influence. This is false.

All societies think it is wrong to kill members of their society. The only exception I've heard of are a few societies that would eat their old or young when they were starving. The ancient Hebrews being one of them despite their ten commandments.

Most societies don't have a problem with killing members of other societies. Now if the bible would have addressed proper treatment of prisoners of war then I'd be impressed. Unfortunately that wasn't addressed until the Geneva Convention in 1949.

In truth, I think you're selling yourself short. Chances are you would be a decent person even without the ten commandments. When I was a Christian I thought my faith was making me moral. When I became an atheist I realized that wasn't so. I'm just as moral now as I was then.

 

[Tuffdisc]

All societies think it is wrong to kill members of their society. The only exception I've heard of are a few societies that would eat their old or young when they were starving. The ancient Hebrews being one of them despite their ten commandments.

Most societies don't have a problem with killing members of other societies. Now if the bible would have addressed proper treatment of prisoners of war then I'd be impressed. Unfortunately that wasn't addressed until the Geneva Convention in 1949.

In truth, I think you're selling yourself short. Chances are you would be a decent person even without the ten commandments. When I was a Christian I thought my faith was making me moral. When I became an atheist I realized that wasn't so. I'm just as moral now as I was then.

You may be as moral as you were as a believer, but to be Christian is to worship and praise God.

 

[Johnfromokc]

If you are Agnostic, why the heck are you bothered about these threads?

Because it's fun. And you apparently have no clue as to the breadth of thought Agnosticism encompasses.

And you have said you have read the bible on only two occasions, that is really hardly enough to "study" the bible

What I said was I have read it through twice AND studied it thoroughly. So that makes more than two full read throughs my friend when you count study time.

Have you read the bible completely through Tuffy?

 

[Tuffdisc]

Because it's fun. And you apparently have no clue as to the breadth of thought Agnosticism encompasses.



What I said was I have read it through twice AND studied it thoroughly. So that makes more than two full read throughs my friend when you count study time.

Have you read the bible completely through Tuffy?

I have, but more than twice. I thought the meaning of Agnosticism meant you don't care whether there is a God or not

 

[Johnfromokc]

I have, but more than twice. I thought the meaning of Agnosticism meant you don't care whether there is a God or not

Good for you. You are an exceptional Christian. Most have never read any more than is quoted from the pulpit on any given weekend worship service.

Do you accept and follow the bible as 100% truth as a whole, or do you pick and choose which commands you will follow and disregard others?

Agnosticism, at its simplest says "I have no idea if there is a god, and neither do you."

I don't claim any particular title as to my belief system - but I do like certian Agnostic trains of thought like Secular Humanism. Check it out for yourself:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=what&section=main

 

[Panacea]

Non-evident things? I thought we were discussing things that could be proven to be true. In that case there is another thread on this forum titled "What makes you think" in which I have posted. So as not to hijack this thread further I would be glad to continue in that thread.

BTW, society believes in many things that have no actual proof of existence.

Ya, posted, it's not really rousing up a ton of insight. To say our existence is proof of an omnipotent man's existence doesn't make a ton of logical sense. No progress can be made in discussing, it's all a pissing match.

Agreed, society has a lot of stupid quirks. A lot of baseless commonly held beliefs used to calm anxieties/exert power and domination, etc.

 

[BornReady]

Good for you. You are an exceptional Christian. Most have never read any more than is quoted from the pulpit on any given weekend worship service.

This is true. Surveys have found that the typical atheist knows more about the bible than the typical Christian. Imo, that's not a coincidence.

I used to go to various conservative Christian churches. Many of these Christians read the bible. But it was a selective reading especially when it came to the old testament. I go to a UU church now and most of the members there do not read the bible. Although many of them have before but didn't find it very edifying.

Some modern Christians are taking an unconventional approach to the bible. They point out it is neither a science book nor a moral guide. If you try to read it as such then you will not discover the truth about either science or morals. So what is the bible? Basically, it's poetry meant to inspire faith in God and hope for something greater to come.

 

[Panacea]

Some modern Christians are taking an unconventional approach to the bible. They point out it is neither a science book nor a moral guide. If you try to read it as such then you will not discover the truth about either science or morals. So what is the bible? Basically, it's poetry meant to inspire faith in God and hope for something greater to come.

Took long enough! hehe
I agree, I think that is it's best use. No different from any best selling novel.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Good for you. You are an exceptional Christian. Most have never read any more than is quoted from the pulpit on any given weekend worship service.

Do you accept and follow the bible as 100% truth as a whole, or do you pick and choose which commands you will follow and disregard others?

Agnosticism, at its simplest says "I have no idea if there is a god, and neither do you."

I don't claim any particular title as to my belief system - but I do like certian Agnostic trains of thought like Secular Humanism. Check it out for yourself:

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=what§ion=main

I don't go for self-judgement as to whether I'm a Christian, God will be my judge whether I followed the teaching of Christ.

There are bits in the Bible that have been misconstrued as the 100%, just say I don't think Moses meant to mean that God created the earth in six days, the seventh being the day of rest. I also believed the Noah story to be simplified as to make it sound not too complicated

 

[BornReady]

I also believed the Noah story to be simplified as to make it sound not too complicated

I'm not sure what you mean here. But if you're saying God didn't really kill practically every living thing on earth then you're on track.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Well, nope I just don't want to carry on with the same thread, it is now going to a point of boring me trying to explain in every detail. I have a lot of things to do. When I have the time I will explain, but now is not the time

 

[doombug]

Doom, open mindedness does not mean accepting every hare-brained idea that comes down the pike.

But the very essence of open mindedness IS being open to possibilities and since you claim the bible is total fiction you are not open to the possibility it could be true.

The bible is fiction. Simply mentioning some middleeastern geography and a couple of caesars does not make it a non- fiction literary work. The best fiction writers weave some historical accuracy into their imaginary work. Think Michael Chriton, Tom Clancey and John Grisham.

So much for open mindedness. Who is claiming the bible as being completely non-fiction?

Not true. Ask any reasonable individual to prove a negative and you will then need to overcome your own evidence of absence. The burden of proof of anyone claiming the existence of anything is always on the claimer to produce that which is claimed to exist.

But theories and ideas are often times accepted without being proven to be true yet you choose the reject the possibility of the bible being non-fiction. Why not reject everything that can't be proven to exist if this is your philosophy? Or could it be the real reason you reject the bible and it's teachings is you desire to live as you please and the bible conflicts with that.

I'm Agnostic in my religious thought process. When Jesus comes to my house and explains why he and his daddy fucked up this planet with all these idiotic humans whose goal it seems is to screw over their fellow humans for personal gain, then I'll believe.

Wow John, seek professional help for your issues with authority figures. Why do you blame all the woes of mankind on God as if humans are totally innocent?

You have not proved me wrong or proved anything else as yet.

So you still think the Roman Empire was a fictional society? You claim the bible contains NO facts. This is clearly not true.

Sorry doom - but I never claimed Abraham sacrificed Issac - I said the Abraham was WILLING to sacrifice his own son, as the fictional account was told in the bible.

But you DID use the story of Abraham and Isaac as an expample of human sacrifice, which never happened. Being willing and actually doing are two different things. Couldn't you have found a better example in the bible to use if it is so chock full of this type of activity as you claim?

This is why I put up the facepalm pics doom. You've convinced yourself, and only yourself of an imagined victory here.

I haven't claimed victory here but I see you recognize the possibility of your epic failure.

Ahhhh...you are a bible scholar are you? So I take it you have actually read the bible completely through several times, right?

Don't lie now - your god will punish you for lying, just like the FSM did to Adam.

I never claimed to be a bible scholar. I do see a pattern here though. I have noticed you have a problem with reading comprehension. I read what I wrote and don't see where I claimed to be a bible scholar but somehow you get that. Maybe the two whole times you read the bible you didn't get the meaning of many things. This is why you don't really "get it". Maybe this is why you are relying on others the bring you proof of Jesus's existence instead of seeking answers for yourself. Maybe you really need help understanding things because apparently reading something isn't enough for you.

 

[doombug]

Ya, posted, it's not really rousing up a ton of insight.

But to the question "What makes you think that there is God?" it is sufficient.

To say our existence is proof of an omnipotent man's existence doesn't make a ton of logical sense.

The thread is "What makes you think that there is God?". I replied the existence of the Universe, Earth and mankind. Where did I mention an omnipotent man?

No progress can be made in discussing, it's all a pissing match.

You seem to easily dismiss topics as if you are above discussing them and can't be bothered with explaining what you believe. It seems to be that your intellectual laziness is just a ploy to avoid any discussion about what you believe and why you believe what you believe.

Agreed, society has a lot of stupid quirks. A lot of baseless commonly held beliefs used to calm anxieties/exert power and domination, etc.

I am really saying there are things that haven't really been proven to exist but are accepted to exist.

 

[Panacea]

But to the question "What makes you think that there is God?" it is sufficient.

Sure. I could say farts are a sufficient proof of god, but it's not very insightful.

The thread is "What makes you think that there is God?". I replied the existence of the Universe, Earth and mankind. Where did I mention an omnipotent man?

In your thread title, no? Is your god not an omnipotent type?

You seem to easily dismiss topics as if you are above discussing them and can't be bothered with explaining what you believe. It seems to be that your intellectual laziness is just a ploy to avoid any discussion about what you believe and why you believe what you believe.

I get sick of discussing the same old shit with the same types of people. Nothing new or informative is ever said, nothing is ever learned, no growth takes place. One person defends their god concept, another defends their lack of god concept, another isn't sure, and they fight about it for hours online. It's boring to me now.

I don't owe the internet anything. I certainly don't owe you anything. If you had anything really interesting, novel, or stimulating to say, I'd be more apt to play along.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I never claimed to be a bible scholar. I do see a pattern here though. I have noticed you have a problem with reading comprehension. I read what I wrote and don't see where I claimed to be a bible scholar but somehow you get that.

You didn't claim to be a bible scholar huh? Then what's this all about:

Thou shalt not debate bible scholars for they shall surely rip thee a new bunghole.

It's not my reading comprehension in question here doom.

We've come full circle, and I leave this thread with a picture that speaks a thousand words about your reading comprehension and your apparent forum dysgraphia:

Have a blessed day.

 

[redliner]

The writing of the bible is like playing a game of telephone with a thousand five year old kids.

 

[doombug]

You didn't claim to be a bible scholar huh? Then what's this all about

My suggestion for you John, what else?

It is apparent to me that you are extremely lacking in the ability to attempt to discuss anything objectively and openly. Furthermore, you make false and misleading statements that are easily found out by a novice like myself. I am only letting you know how weak you are at debating and advising not to debate anyone with a scholar level knowledge of religion. I haven't even mentioned how you are making non-believers look really bad.

It's not my reading comprehension in question here doom.

No but it certainly explains alot.

We've come full circle, and I leave this thread with a picture that speaks a thousand words about your reading comprehension and your apparent forum dysgraphia

Have a blessed day.

Oh yes, your facepalm of frustration because you are unable to understand the written word. I guess you are on to other threads to do nothing but poke fun at Christians and their religion. You claim to be in the Agnostic category yet you target only the Christian faith. What about Muslims or Hindus? I don't think you mention them much if at all. Some non-believers do carry a chip on their shoulders because of bad experiences with Christianity. As adults they act like spoiled children who are angry because they don't get their way or the world isn't perfect in their own eyes. So they blame God and Religion for not making the world into what they think it should be.

So leave the thread with your apparent form of asphasia and possible acute case of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I'm sure you will continue to rail against Christianity in an attempt to work out whatever issues you have but remember God loves you anyway.