Though shalt not kill. Would you do so for your God?

[Johnfromokc]

The Bible does not justify me killing another person for sinning
Please read if you claimed to have studied the bible, though I doubt if you have, because the silly questions you have come up so far
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090527195706AA3VQg7

It doesn't? Hmmmm....all those verses I quoted are not in the bible then? Is that what you are claiming?

 

[Tuffdisc]

It doesn't? Hmmmm....all those verses I quoted are not in the bible then? Is that what you are claiming?

errrr, there are different ways of looking at the Bible, 1/ there is to glance over it and make wrong assumptions 2/ read and study the bible and come up with the proper meanings. I personally think you have slotted yourself in to the first one, because you are just coming up with wrong assumptions of what things mean in the Bible

 

[Johnfromokc]

errrr, there are different ways of looking at the Bible, 1/ there is to glance over it and make wrong assumptions 2/ read and study the bible and come up with the proper meanings. I personally think you have slotted yourself in to the first one, because you are just coming up with wrong assumptions of what things mean in the Bible

There is a third way of reading the bible - Rather than attempting to take verses and twist them around to arrive at the "proper meaning", you take them at face value and accept that they say exactly what they say.

If you have to "come up with proper meanings" then you are bastardizing the document in an attempt to make it appear less violent than it actually is.

 

[Tuffdisc]

There is a third way of reading the bible - Rather than attempting to take verses and twist them around to arrive at the "proper meaning", you take them at face value and accept that they say exactly what they say.

If you have to "come up with proper meanings" then you are bastardizing the document in an attempt to make it appear less violent than it actually is.

I have no doubt that the Bible is full of "If you do this and that" then death is the only way to be punished, but that is for people without sin or wrong doing, therefore you have come up with your own conclusions. It may not of said that in the Old Testament, but if you read the new testament, in particularly this, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8:3-11&version=NIV, also, please note that this came from a man who is WITHOUT SIN

The verses in Romans where it says those who sin will be punished for their wrongs doings, i.e. go to hell means that those who don't repent from their sins will go to hell. It is littered in the New Testament to "Repent" and "It is easier for a prostitute to go to heaven than it is for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle", assuming that the prostitute and other sinners have repented, so it nullifies your claim that the Bible or God is violent

 

[doombug]

So what if God kills or has killed. The commandment states Thou shalt not kill meaning this commandment is for mankind. Remember this: God is God, you are not.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I have no doubt that the Bible is full of "If you do this and that" then death is the only way to be punished, but that is for people without sin or wrong doing, therefore you have come up with your own conclusions. It may not of said that in the Old Testament, but if you read the new testament, in particularly this, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8:3-11&version=NIV, also, please note that this came from a man who is WITHOUT SIN

The verses in Romans where it says those who sin will be punished for their wrongs doings, i.e. go to hell means that those who don't repent from their sins will go to hell. It is littered in the New Testament to "Repent" and "It is easier for a prostitute to go to heaven than it is for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle", assuming that the prostitute and other sinners have repented, so it nullifies your claim that the Bible or God is violent

Can you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Here is a humorous look at the insanity of the bible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBQnjVX_gco

 

[Tuffdisc]

How does it sound ridiculous? I have never found anything ridiculous. Yes, I have questioned the bible over a few things, but there is nothing wrong there

 

[Tuffdisc]

So what if God kills or has killed. The commandment states Thou shalt not kill meaning this commandment is for mankind. Remember this: God is God, you are not.

Correct

 

[Johnfromokc]

So what if God kills or has killed. Remember this: God is God, you are not.

One would first have to actually believe the work of fiction known as the bible is true to make a statement like this.

How do you know I'm not god? Does god not work in mysterious ways?

 

[doombug]

One would first have to actually believe the work of fiction known as the bible is true to make a statement like this.

How do you know I'm not god? Does god not work in mysterious ways?

So the Bible is a work of fiction? hmmm, and another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

Yes, there are many people who would like to think of themselves as God but they are also incorrect.

God works in mysterious ways? That is a line from an old hymn by William Cowper. You are clearly grasping at straws here.

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" means don't take it upon yourself to murder someone for your own personal reasons. You do not have the right to make that decision on your own based on your personal justification.

 

[Johnfromokc]

So the Bible is a work of fiction?

Indeed. Do you believe all those stories at face value?

hmmm, and another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

What puzzle might that be?

Yes, there are many people who would like to think of themselves as God but they are also incorrect.

God works in mysterious ways? That is a line from an old hymn by William Cowper. You are clearly grasping at straws here.

The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" means don't take it upon yourself to murder someone for your own personal reasons. You do not have the right to make that decision on your own based on your personal justification.

The laws of humankind have forbidden murder long before Judiaism or Christianity was invented.

Society does not require the invention of deities to realize killing each other is not a desireable human activity.

 

[doombug]

The "Laws of Human Kind" and where are these written? Did the ancient Aztecs know about these "laws" since human sacrifice was a common event among them?

I will refrain from posting photos at this point as I am not nearly that desperate in disguising gaping holes in logic.

 

[Johnfromokc]

The "Laws of Human Kind" and where are these written? Did the ancient Aztecs know about these "laws" since human sacrifice was a common event among them?

Human sacrifice? Scroll back up and watch the video "God is Smart". Remember Abraham and Issac?

The Aztec's had laws just like Jews and Christians did. That goes to prove religious laws are often barbaric in nature. We are all better off with secular law:

http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-crime-and-punishment.html

As to ancient law - Where would you like to start? Ancient Egypt?

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/index.html

Or maybe ancient China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_law


Ancient Babylonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_law

Ancient Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_law

I will refrain from posting photos at this point as I am not nearly that desperate in disguising gaping holes in logic.

That comment deserves yet another facepalm, but I'll let it slide for now.

 

[Tim]

...gaping holes in logic.

Please refrain from mixing logic and religion. The two never belong in the same conversation.

 

[doombug]

Human sacrifice? Scroll back up and watch the video "God is Smart". Remember Abraham and Issac?

Of course I don't actually remember Abraham and Isaac, I'm not that old. But from what I have read Abraham never actually sacrificed Isaac.

So you are comparing the Aztec's human sacrifices on a regular basis to one human sacrifice that never actually happened? Your point goes unproven.

The Aztec's had laws just like Jews and Christians did. That goes to prove religious laws are often barbaric in nature. We are all better off with secular law:

http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-crime-and-punishment.html

As to ancient law - Where would you like to start? Ancient Egypt?

http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/law_and_order/index.html

Or maybe ancient China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_law


Ancient Babylonia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_law

Ancient Greece

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_law

OK, you were referring to laws of different civilizations then. For a minute I thought there was a list of "Humankind" laws that applied to everyone at all times.

The problem with different societies laws is that societies eventually fail so their laws are only as effective as their ability to enforce them. Thou shalt not kill applies even when societies eventually crumble.

Also past and present world leaders are considered above secular law. Look at Pol Pot, one of the biggest mass murderers possibly of all time. Maybe if he had not been an atheist and believed the 10 commandments he wouldn't have butchered so many innocent people.

That comment deserves yet another facepalm, but I'll let it slide for now.

I appreciate the effort.

 

[doombug]

Please refrain from mixing logic and religion. The two never belong in the same conversation.

So true and the reason I only stick with the facts.

 

[Greatest I am]

Pfft, that is just irrelevant these days of Christianity

It says that sinners who haven't repented will go to hell, quite straight forward isn't it. According to you, the Bible is homophobic, if that was the case it would only mention homosexuals would go to hell, not murderers, not adulterers, fornicators, people who act in a promiscuous way, that includes straight people. As of killing first born, was Pharaoh treating the Israelites in an appalling way? Don't you call that justice if someone if you send someone to death for killing another person i.e. death penalty? Typical you, isn't it to look at other's "Bad" side, while you don't look at your own

What can I say to one with no morals.
Deuteronomy 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Name the sin of the first born.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I have no doubt that the Bible is full of "If you do this and that" then death is the only way to be punished, but that is for people without sin or wrong doing, therefore you have come up with your own conclusions. It may not of said that in the Old Testament, but if you read the new testament, in particularly this, http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8:3-11&version=NIV, also, please note that this came from a man who is WITHOUT SIN

The verses in Romans where it says those who sin will be punished for their wrongs doings, i.e. go to hell means that those who don't repent from their sins will go to hell. It is littered in the New Testament to "Repent" and "It is easier for a prostitute to go to heaven than it is for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle", assuming that the prostitute and other sinners have repented, so it nullifies your claim that the Bible or God is violent

If all are born in sin and there are none who have not sinned, then

""If you do this and that" then death is the only way to be punished, but that is for people without sin or wrong doing,"

Who is this referring to? Mr. invisible and impossible?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

So what if God kills or has killed. The commandment states Thou shalt not kill meaning this commandment is for mankind. Remember this: God is God, you are not.

So you think that a policy of do as I say and not as I do is a good policy for a law maker do you?
Seems like you have ignored this question before. Hmm.

Regards
DL

 

[Johnfromokc]

Of course I don't actually remember Abraham and Isaac, I'm not that old. But from what I have read Abraham never actually sacrificed Isaac.

And you see no problem with a religion with a deity that would create beings and then pull a stunt like that upon its own "creation"?

So you are comparing the Aztec's human sacrifices on a regular basis to one human sacrifice that never actually happened? Your point goes unproven.

My point is that all societies have had their laws. Murder in the name of your god was legal at one time - even after the alleged birth of the mythical "Christ".

OK, you were referring to laws of different civilizations then. For a minute I thought the was a list of "Humankind" laws that applied to everyone at all times.

The problem with different societies laws is that societies eventually fail so their laws are only as effective as their ability to enforce them. Thou shalt not kill applies even when societies eventually crumble.

Every historically documented society has had laws prohibiting all manner of crimes against other human beings, even the Pagans. The Pagans had laws and Paganism is as old as humankind - and Christianity has taken up many Pagan traditions like Christmas and Easter.

Also past and present world leaders are considered above secular law. Look at Pol Pot, one of the biggest mass murderers possibly of all time. Maybe if he had not been an atheist and believed the 10 commandments he wouldn't have butchered so many innocent people.

Ever heard of the crusades?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

Maybe if those Christians had not gone into Muslim lands and slaughterd men, women and children, Islam (another mythological human created religion) might not be so radical and bent on revenge to this day.

So true and the reason I only stick with the facts.

There are no facts in the bible.