The Super Committee Falls On Its Sword- Surprised?

[Minor Axis]

I answered this yesterday and get up this morning to see it's not here. Apparently I didn't hit submit or something. So I craft another post around fixing breakfast, but apparently took too long (timed out) & the damn thing disappeared. Hopefully third time's the charm. You're right. Sorry.

Of course you can. You can go shopping then decide not to spend your money because the product is too expensive, wasn't the quality you were promised, or you decide the salesperson is an ass and doesn't deserve the commission. Same thing with compromise. You don't have to compromise if the other party is asking for too much. It simply wouldn't be wise.

Yes you are, in my case. You're asking me to step too far away from my principles, which are different from yours. You naturally value your principles more than mine; I'm asking you to respect that I value mine as much as you value your own.

In my view, the other side has already consolidated its power so much that it can hedge its bets by submitting two candidates, calling one "Republican" and the other "Democrat." You would have me choose between these two and ignore all others, somehow imagining that I am compromising in the process. I refuse to play the "lesser of two evils" game because it guarantees that evil wins every time.
How can I vote for the guy that says he's for lower taxes when it also means voting to support the military industrial complex's ever-expanding empire, and cede my right to privacy?
How can I vote for the guy that says he's for small business when it also means voting to support the nanny state and cede my rights to self determination and self responsibility?

Asking me to compromise and choose between the generic dem or repub is like asking you to compromise and choose between GW Bush & Rick Perry.

Not the best example because Bush and Perry basically say the same thing. Dems and GOPs are drastically different in their political views. You are trying to say they are just alike, which they are not. But, I understand where you are coming from. In a nutshell if the choices you see coming from both the Dems and GOPs are both equally unpalatable you are going to vote for the guy who is going to lose.

Have a great Thanksgiving!

 

[CityGirl]

Are there really DRASTIC differences? If they are so drastic, why is it that the average American is embracing the idea that Democrats and Republicans are 2 heads of the same bird so to speak? If there are really drastic differences between the 2 parties, is there a tactic to getting the majority to thinking they are alike?

 

[Accountable]

Not the best example because Bush and Perry basically say the same thing.

Then it was an excellent example.

Dems and GOPs are drastically different in their political views. You are trying to say they are just alike, which they are not.

They only differ on periphery items, but they agree on the major fundamentals, such as a strong central gov't and subordinate state governments, global dominance, ever-expanding control over the populace. As I've asked many times before but have yet to be answered: Name one major federal program that one party started that the other party ended once they came into power.

But, I understand where you are coming from. In a nutshell if the choices you see coming from both the Dems and GOPs are both equally unpalatable you are going to vote for the guy who is going to lose.

Only so long as people like you & Tim fool yourselves into thinking you are choosing between two different evils. If I can ever pry open your rusted-closed minds to see the truth, then maybe together we can make a difference.

Have a great Thanksgiving!

The same to you!

 

[Minor Axis]

Then it was an excellent example.

They only differ on periphery items, but they agree on the major fundamentals, such as a strong central gov't and subordinate state governments, global dominance, ever-expanding control over the populace. As I've asked many times before but have yet to be answered: Name one major federal program that one party started that the other party ended once they came into power.

I can't answer that. I've all ready told you multiple times, I'd be happy to consider any viable alternative. The key word is "viable". Despite this, you are kidding yourself if you think these two parties are alike. I like the concept of a strong federal government. I don't think you have to continue worrying about U.S. global dominance. That is slipping away.

Only so long as people like you & Tim fool yourselves into thinking you are choosing between two different evils. If I can ever pry open your rusted-closed minds to see the truth, then maybe together we can make a difference.

Maybe the differences are too minor in your estimation to differentiate. One party is populace and the other is elitist. No I don't expect you to agree. Unfortunately the economy has to degrade and a viable alternative has to emerge to change the status quo. I'm always willing to consider an alternative. And you can stop patting yourself on the back regarding your philosophical purity. Throwing your hands up and stomping away from the party solves nothing. You've got to deal with the hand your dealt.

 

[Accountable]

I can't answer that. I've all ready told you multiple times, I'd be happy to consider any viable alternative. The key word is "viable".

Anyone is viable if we make them viable. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. You feel powerless to change things so you yourself don't change, then point to the lack of change as proof.

One party is populace and the other is elitist.

Is bailing out the banking industry populist or elitist?
Is bailing out the auto industry populist or elitist?
Is bailing out the housing industry populist or elitist?
Help me out here, because I'm not sure which of these multi-trillion-dollar industries are the populist ones.

Throwing your hands up and stomping away from the party solves nothing. You've got to deal with the hand your dealt.

Sitting on your hands and voting status quo does worse than solves nothing; it abets the erosion of liberty.

Viable alternatives only seem to emerge to you passive sheep, while those of us actually concerned go looking for real alternatives to the republcrat fake ones that fool you so easily. The hard part is shaking enough of you out of your stupor of passive hopelessness to make the alternative appear "viable" to the rest of you.... all the while listening to your idiotic circular logic.

 

[Minor Axis]

Viable alternatives only seem to emerge to you passive sheep, while those of us actually concerned go looking for real alternatives to the republcrat fake ones that fool you so easily. The hard part is shaking enough of you out of your stupor of passive hopelessness to make the alternative appear "viable" to the rest of you.... all the while listening to your idiotic circular logic.

Oki-dokey.

Just curious, how much time do you spend per week getting your politician of choice elected? Exactly what do you do, that allows you to categorize yourself as superior?

 

[Accountable]

Oki-dokey.

Just curious, how much time do you spend per week getting your politician of choice elected? Exactly what do you do, that allows you to categorize yourself as superior?

I'm not superior. You're apathetic.

 

[Minor Axis]

I'm not superior. You're apathetic.

With what I bolded in your previous reply, what kind of response would you prefer? I noticed you did not answer my first question. How much time do you spend turning the system around and specifically what do you do to accomplish this?

 

[Accountable]

With what I bolded in your previous reply, what kind of response would you prefer?

I would prefer that you see the truth in my words and look within yourself to see what you can do, rather than search for something to ridicule in someone who is doing more than yourself.

 

[Minor Axis]

I would prefer that you see the truth in my words and look within yourself to see what you can do, rather than search for something to ridicule in someone who is doing more than yourself.

You sir need to look in the mirror or maybe check the dictionary for "ridicule" and judge your own actions before judging others. I've asked you what you specifically do to elect your dream politician. How do you know you do more than I?

 

[JuggsBunny]

I can tell you why moderates are looked down upon by the American masses... it's because of the term "flip-flop". Really. The main-stream-media has classified that term as "bad". I don't know about the majority of you guys, but I've been known to "flip-flop" myself. Really!! I know, I know... the horror!! Sometimes, your perspective and ideas change because of various experiences. Other times, its a particular age or perhaps a stage that we're going through - and something that you previously held as one of your values has evolved into something else. Either way, I know very few people who don't have different opinions as they reach stages in their personal or professional development.

One way to get everyone to see the actual politics that ARE going on is to get rid of the "moral" rulings and the religious bullshit. Think of how much we could focus on if:

- We didn't focus on abortion. Leave the laws and the funds as they are. There are bigger fish to fry.

- We didn't focus on whether or not "under god" stays in the Pledge of Allegiance. We're supposed to be a secular nation, let's drop the fucking drama for now and look at.... THE ECONOMY.

- We didn't focus on whether or not religion is taught in schools. Public schools are secular, if you want Junior to learn about Jesus during school, send him to a religious school. If you can't afford to do so, you might want to take a look and see if you can afford Junior. You might have to prioritize other things BESIDES prayer in schools.

Start by getting our troops home from a fucking war that has been going on for TEN YEARS - we can no longer afford to be in the sandbox. Pare down government - starting at the local level. Quit giving anyone bailouts. Call in the loans from Detroit. If we are a capitalist society, the big auto makers will have to sink or swim on their own. Re-regulate the banking industry. Drop taxes for new businesses and give incentives to keep employers and companies in the States.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most Americans - regardless of what their PERSONAL feelings are regarding "religion" and "morality" could agree on the paragraph above. Quit falling for all the fucking bullshit red herrings (that are hot-button subjects) and PAY ATTENTION. FFS!!!

 

[Minor Axis]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that most Americans - regardless of what their PERSONAL feelings are regarding "religion" and "morality" could agree on the paragraph above. Quit falling for all the fucking bullshit red herrings (that are hot-button subjects) and PAY ATTENTION. FFS!!!

I think you are right. All of the religious issues you have mentioned have to do with right wing religious conservatives who are not content to dine as they see fit, but insist on shoving their fat religious sandwich down everyone's throat...

 

[Accountable]

You sir need to look in the mirror or maybe check the dictionary for "ridicule" and judge your own actions before judging others. I've asked you what you specifically do to elect your dream politician. How do you know you do more than I?

I do far more than you because I don't default to the lesser of two evils, which you have admitted is your standard vote again and again.... oh yeh, and then you give a backhanded lip service to keeping an open mind while showing how welded shut it really is. Rather than waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting and voting against my own interests in favor of voting for who I think will win (an empty victory if you ask me) I tell others of who I am voting for and why, and try (futilely, in your case) to convince them that the real wasted vote is voting for evil. On rare occasion, I have sent money to aid a campaign, but I'm really picky about that.

 

[Accountable]

I think you are right. All of the religious issues you have mentioned have to do with right wing religious conservatives who are not content to dine as they see fit, but insist on shoving their fat religious sandwich down everyone's throat...

Excellent line!

 

[Accountable]

Pare down government - starting at the local level.

I enjoyed your post and agree with the lion's share of it. This sentence jumped out at me, though. Why start paring at the local level? Isn't Washington too large?

 

[JuggsBunny]

If we start at the local level, we can move - and move QUICKLY!!!!!

 

[Accountable]

If we start at the local level, we can move - and move QUICKLY!!!!!

What are we moving toward by reducing decentralized gov't & leaving Washington intact?

 

[Alien Allen]

All the evil starts at the local political level

The system is gamed

And those who vote for anybody else is voting for a nut according to the masses.

 

[JuggsBunny]

If you start cleaning house at the local levels, you can get politicians in that could possibly change how things are run. Then it becomes a chain reaction.

 

[Accountable]

If you start cleaning house at the local levels, you can get politicians in that could possibly change how things are run. Then it becomes a chain reaction.

I agree we need to get the right people in at all levels of legislature. We can work on that at all levels simultaneously. As far as paring gov't, though, If we can stop all the federal funding to all the state and local programs, then the local governments will have no choice but to shrink. Otherwise, they can make a show of cutting costs while filling the cuts with federal tax money. We absolutely have to keep an eye on state and local operations, but I believe the most damage to our liberties is at the federal level (despite the crazy new "nanny" restrictions my own city is enacting) and that's where we should devote more of our energy.