The Student Protests

[Accountable]

Care to back that up with any proof? Why would the police deliberately try and cause trouble which they know would lead to their own getting hurt and widespread damage? How did the police make a student piss on Winston Churchill's statue? How did the police make the mob attack the royal family who were doing nothing wrong?

What I think he means (correct me if I'm wrong, Ed) is that some gov't official "seeds" the crowd with agitators to get people stirred up - yell profanities, maybe throw a rock or yell out suggestions to turn a car over - then let mob mentality take over, come what may.

 

[Peter Parka]

Yeah, that would make sense, a government trying to get people to protest against them and destroy their property.:sarcasm

 

[edgray]

Care to back that up with any proof? Why would the police deliberately try and cause trouble which they know would lead to their own getting hurt and widespread damage? How did the police make a student piss on Winston Churchill's statue? How did the police make the mob attack the royal family who were doing nothing wrong?

Well I wasn't there, though I'm sure someone somewhere has caught it on film. This is the oldest tactic in the book when it comes to protest. you think govts like protests? of course not, they are far too dangerous and can actually affect change if the masses are on side. Look at the Pole Tax riots. That time it backfired on Thatcher.

I've been to a fair few protests myself over the years, and seen thugs not associated with any group there start attacking public property and then mysteriously disappearing behind police lines. And not by force.

have a look at what happened in Canada. It's WELL DOCUMENTED that the police were aiding and abetting trouble makers in order to quash legitimate protest:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19928

Have a search around. I'm trying to find the site that's loaded with witness reports, if I come across it again I'll post it here.

I'm sure one day the truth will come out. Unfortunately the UK is such a secretive society it's night on impossible to "prove" these things. I have little doubt of the govts involvement.

What I think he means (correct me if I'm wrong, Ed) is that some gov't official "seeds" the crowd with agitators to get people stirred up - yell profanities, maybe throw a rock or yell out suggestions to turn a car over - then let mob mentality take over, come what may.

Yup that's it. It takes nothing to stir shit up.

Yeah, that would make sense, a government trying to get people to protest against them and destroy their property.:sarcasm

Of course it makes PERFECT sense. The government don't like it when the people speak up and take democracy by the horns and try and get things done. The small destruction of property and a few injured cops is nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[Peter Parka]

One major failing in your wild conspiracy theory - you haven't got a shred of evidence to prove it.

 

[edgray]

One major failing in your wild conspiracy theory - you haven't got a shred of evidence to prove it.

only common sense Peter.

Like I said, don't think it's possible? Check the G20 protests in Canada. That's pretty much how it works.

 

[Peter Parka]

You think it's common sense that a government wants its people to protest against it, vandalise it's buildings, piss on its war memorials ect ect??? Alrighty then!

 

[edgray]

You think it's common sense that a government wants its people to protest against it, vandalise it's buildings, piss on its war memorials ect ect??? Alrighty then!

It's common sense that the government DO NOT want public support for these kinds of issues. So how do you discredit them? Easy, get them to piss people like yourself off. Job done.

The cost of damage to buildings etc is nothing compared to the cost of the govt having to pay for student's tuition fees.

 

[edgray]

furthermore, don't you see how it's worked? no one is talking about the issue at hand anymore. They're just talking about the riot.

 

[Peter Parka]

Or here's another theory which actually has proof behind it... a load of lefty, wanna be Che Guevara student with the brains and maturity of 5 year olds, threw a childish tantrums and used the increase in student fees as an excuse for common thuggery.

 

[edgray]

Or here's another theory which actually has proof behind it... a load of lefty, wanna be Che Guevara student with the brains and maturity of 5 year olds, threw a childish tantrums and used the increase in student fees as an excuse for common thuggery.

Like I said, job done.

 

[Springsteen]

There was this student on the news today who's studying fashion at Uni. She's not happy about the rises but she also understands that shit happens and she has a part time job on a market stall where she's earning to one day pay her fees off. She isn't down London vandalising and behaving terribly because they have to pay to be educated. If all of the scruffy urchins got a part time job or at least worked out a better way to pay off their debts it'd be easier. Vandalizing property isn't the way to do it.

 

[Tuffdisc]

I think it sucks when the start vandalising shops and businesses that have done them students no harm. I actually was caught up with one protest, no police to provoke them there, so I have really little sympathy if their attitude is that police provoke them, when there is no police around and they vandalise shop windows

 

[skyblue]

you dont think they were all students do you?

 

[Zorak]

There was this student on the news today who's studying fashion at Uni. She's not happy about the rises but she also understands that shit happens and she has a part time job on a market stall where she's earning to one day pay her fees off. She isn't down London vandalising and behaving terribly because they have to pay to be educated. If all of the scruffy urchins got a part time job or at least worked out a better way to pay off their debts it'd be easier. Vandalizing property isn't the way to do it.

I get what you're saying, riotous behavior is unacceptable, but your statement doesn't make sense on a number of levels for the following reasons:

a) these changes don't effect current students
b) repayments do not start until after graduation and earning about 20,000 a year
c) market stalls are cash in hand jobs, and thus will not constitute repayment.
d) most students have part time jobs
e) what kind of part time job gives you the income to pay off £42000-£60000 plus interest that will make up the feasable amount of Student loan (3-4 year tuition fee and accomodation allowance)?

 

[Springsteen]

a) these changes don't effect current students

Then explain to me why these students are rioting when it doesn't effect them.

d) most students have part time jobs

Apart from these louts obviously.

b) repayments do not start until after graduation and earning about 20,000 a year

You know, I think this is the biggest problem, and it's one Peter alluded to. Some of the courses that are available at Uni are ridiculous. I mean....History? Where's that going to get you? Sociology? Really? Study Of Religion? If you want to become a priest, doing that isn't the way. Now courses like Nursing I agree with, ditto Law, and even Languages if they are going on to become a translator perhaps.

 

[Tuffdisc]

you dont think they were all students do you?

I don't think all 100% are students

 

[Abcinthia]

Courses like Nursing, Bioscience and Midwivery ARE free which is why it makes me laugh when people start saying that the changes will affect them. It is NHS funded (but you can still get student loans and grants) so you do not have to pay for the course. The only things you have to pay for is stuff like accomindation, food etc which is why they give you loans and grants becuase it is quite impossible to work whilst doing nursing shift work. But if you are clever about it, you can come away with no debt and the prospect of a job afterwards.

 

[edgray]

a) these changes don't effect current students

why should that matter?

 

[Zorak]

Then explain to me why these students are rioting when it doesn't effect them.

Apart from these louts obviously.

You know, I think this is the biggest problem, and it's one Peter alluded to. Some of the courses that are available at Uni are ridiculous. I mean....History? Where's that going to get you? Sociology? Really? Study Of Religion? If you want to become a priest, doing that isn't the way. Now courses like Nursing I agree with, ditto Law, and even Languages if they are going on to become a translator perhaps.

There are all sorts of people in these riots, students, non students, future students... You make it sound all so simplistic when it is anything but.
A part time job doesn't fix anything, there were almost certainly a number of protestors there that had part time jobs, just as a number of students who don't .

You think history is a ridiculous course? A history degree is worth its weight in gold from a good uni. I wish I had done history and I might yet do a masters in it. If you cant see the value in history degrees; that is the study of the world from every social, economic, political and militarial view-point and the formulation and refinement of arguement and reason, then I don't know what else to say.

 

[Springsteen]

You think history is a ridiculous course? A history degree is worth its weight in gold from a good uni. I wish I had done history and I might yet do a masters in it. If you cant see the value in history degrees; that is the study of the world from every social, economic, political and militarial view-point and the formulation and refinement of arguement and reason, then I don't know what else to say.

What job does it get you? Serious question.