The South

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dt3

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I recently read a great book (The Politically Incorrect Guide to the South), and learned a lot of things I didn't know or just never thought about. Here's some of the more interesting ones (if you want references, I'll PM the ones provided by the author and anything in quotes is an excerpt from the book):

The American Civil War was NOT, by definition, a civil war. According to Wikipedia: "A civil war is a war in which parties within the same culture, society or nationality fight against each other for the control of political power." The Confederacy never tried to capture DC, and did not want to take the North's political power. They wanted to form their own government, seperate from the US.

It was New England which invented the idea of secession; first in objection to the Louisiana Purchase in 1803 doubling the nation’s land area, and then in 1814 when New England wanted to trade with enemy England during the War of 1812.

"In 1641 Massachusettes became the first colony to legalize the slave trade, followed by Connecticut in 1650."

The Confederate flag, designed to resemble the cross favored by Jesus’ disciple St. Andrew, as well as the ancient flag of Scotland, did not fly over any slave ships.

"Professor Thomas J. Jackson, out of uniform for nearly ten years, was such a devoted Unionist that he almost came to blows with a man in Lexington, Virginia, when the rabble-rouser pulled an American flag down from the county courthouse in early April. In July Jackson would acquire the nickname of Stonewall."

Every state added after the original 13 colonies was acquired while a Southerner was president

The Hartford Convention was called by Federalists in Massachussetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire and Vermont in December 1814. One of the Convention's recommendations was amending the Constitution so slaves would no longer be counted as people.

In November 1864, a blockade-runner ship was captured by the Union off the coast of Texas carrying cotton. The ship had just finished running guns into Texas in exchange for cotton. Here's the kicker: "Papers were found onboard indicating that one of the partners owning the ship was Willim Sprague, a former Union army colonel, former governor of Rhode Island, sitting United States senator from Rhode Island, and son-in-law of Salmon Chase, the current chief justice and former treasury secretary."

"Confederate President Jefferson Davis had a black foster son..."

In 1854, Lincoln gave a speech calling for the return of blacks to Africa, saying "we cannot make them our equals."

The Vatican formally endorsed the Confederacy. Pope Pius IX and Jefferson Davis became close friends.

"At Harvard University's Memorial Hall there is a wall of honor for graduates who died in the nation's wars. Included among the names are one Nazi, but none of the 164 Harvard alumni who died in combat for the Confederacy."

Abraham Lincoln was quoted as saying "It is one of the best tunes I have ever heard.", in reference to "Dixie".

In 1996, Olympic officials in Atlanta heard a girl practicing her routine to "Dixie". "They forced her to change her entire routine lest anyone be offended."

"Only one Northerner, Elbridge Gerry of Massachusettes, joined the South in calling for a Bill of Rights."

The South (Virginia), elected the first black governor in US history
Douglas Wilder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of the first major slave owners was black
Anthony Johnson (American Colonial) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Robert E. Lee once said: "In an enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowlede that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil in any country."


And here's my favorite part. It's long, but worth the read.

While President, Dwight D. Eisenhower once said he had pictures of 4 great Americans in his office, one of them being Robert E. Lee. When asked why he held Lee "in such high esteem?", Eisenhower responded:

"I would say, first,that we need to understand that at the time of the War Between the States the issue of Secession had remained unresolved for more than 70 years. Men of probity, character, public standing, and unquestioned loyalty, both North and South, had disagreed over the issue as a matter of principle from the day our Constitution was adopted. General Robert E. Lee was, in my estimation, one of the supremely gifted men produced by our Nation. He believed unswervingly in the Constitutional validity of his cause which until 1865 was still an arguable question in America: he was thoughtful yet demanding of his officers and men, forbearing with captured enmies but ingenious, unrelenting and personally courageous in battle, and never disheartened by a reverse or obstacle. Through all his many trials, he remained selfless almost to a fault and unfailing in his belief in God. Taken altogether, he was noble as a leader and as a man, and unsullied as I read the pages of our history. From deep conviction I simply say this: a nation of men of Lee's caliber would be unconquerable in spirit and soul. Indeed, to the degree that present-day American youth will strive to emulate his rare qualities, including his devotion to this land as revealed in his painstaking efforts to help heal the nation's wounds once the bitter struggle was over, we, in our own time of danger in a divided world, will be strengthened and our love of freedom sustained. Such are the reasons that I proudly display the picture of this great American on my wall."


So, the next time you see a Confederate Flag, don't just jump to the conclusion that the owner is an ignorant redneck. Southerners helped turn this nation into what it is today. And remember, it's the victors who write the history books.
 
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GuesSAngel

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I don't know, I think most of it is a bunch of crap. The book was probably written by a southerner who twisted some things around and came up with his own 'facts'.
 

GuesSAngel

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I looked up one thing with Abe lincoln...and there was more after the fact of what he said. What's being said up above, is just make Abe look like some kind of bad guy.

It just seems to me that the southerners according to that were the good guys, and could do no wrong. That's not how I had my history lessons...so I guess maybe every history book that I've read must be wrong.
 

Sneakiecat

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And remember, it's the victors who write the history books.

It's not that they are "wrong," they're just bias. Yeah, the South had a lot wrong with it. But the North did its own far share of not-so-nice stuff with slavery too. A lot of people assumed that all Southeners owned slaves when only 25% did. And of that 25%, I believe 70% owned less than 5.
 

GuesSAngel

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I really don't think that my books could have been 'bias'. I've learned the pros and cons with the north and south. But it just seemed the south was the worse of it. And that seems to go for any movie too that was based on the war or history channel that did shows on it.

I can't imagine where we would be today if the south had won the war. That would just completely change all of history to today
 

Agathabean

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I just moved from the north to the south, my family came from the south, but I grew up in the north. The people down here have a reputation, southern hospitalty, bullcrap. I haven't met a person who was nice to me. I hate it here and want to go back north. The land is beautiful, though. By the way my family, through research I found, worked on the underground railroad and never owned slaves, yet, in a college course I took on African American history, they made me out to be a bad guy. I ended up having to drop the course. I don't think this had much to do with the post, but I needed to say that. Thank you.
 

memento_mori

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In another thread, I said i would rather have people wave the confederate flag around and be stupid than have them be repressed.

i was really just grabbing at the first thought that came to mind of what people would find offensive but would still let go on. i wasn't trying to bash the south, i know the confederate flag can represent more than just slavery and rednecks, some people look at it as indendence and state rights.

so that's that. where do you plan on this thread going?
 

All Else Failed

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Idk man, I think if the south saw it as a good possibility they would have taken the north and made it their land as well. Why wouldn't they if it was feasible?
 

dt3

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In another thread, I said i would rather have people wave the confederate flag around and be stupid than have them be repressed.

i was really just grabbing at the first thought that came to mind of what people would find offensive but would still let go on. i wasn't trying to bash the south, i know the confederate flag can represent more than just slavery and rednecks, some people look at it as indendence and state rights.

so that's that. where do you plan on this thread going?

Honestly, I saw your post and it pissed me off. I just finished reading this book and figured I'd share some of it. As far as where it goes, I have no idea. Who knows where any thread on this board will go? :)
 

All Else Failed

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Because their goal was independence, not dominance?

Yes, but I'm only stating the hypothetical. I mean, I wouldn't doubt that if they we doing incredibly well they wouldn't just push aside the thought of total control.

But these are just "what ifs".
 

All Else Failed

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In another thread, I said i would rather have people wave the confederate flag around and be stupid than have them be repressed.

i was really just grabbing at the first thought that came to mind of what people would find offensive but would still let go on. i wasn't trying to bash the south, i know the confederate flag can represent more than just slavery and rednecks, some people look at it as indendence and state rights.

so that's that. where do you plan on this thread going?

Yeah, but it still represents slavery one way or the other.
 

TheOriginalJames

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Not all southerners are bad people or even descendents of slave owners. But there are those ignorant people who still believe the war for slavery (which it really wasn't even about) is still going on.
 

TheOriginalJames

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I just moved from the north to the south, my family came from the south, but I grew up in the north. The people down here have a reputation, southern hospitalty, bullcrap. I haven't met a person who was nice to me. I hate it here and want to go back north. The land is beautiful, though. By the way my family, through research I found, worked on the underground railroad and never owned slaves, yet, in a college course I took on African American history, they made me out to be a bad guy. I ended up having to drop the course. I don't think this had much to do with the post, but I needed to say that. Thank you.

That's some great reverse racism. I love it when african americans, who nowadays enjoy more benefits (like scholarships for just being african americans), will preach equal rights and bitch out any white guy who mumbles any sort of racial commentary.

Hypocritical nowadays is what this nation and some african americans are.
 

All Else Failed

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Not all southerners are bad people or even descendents of slave owners. But there are those ignorant people who still believe the war for slavery (which it really wasn't even about) is still going on.


Oh, Ive been down to the south a few times, Myrtle Beach and all of that and people were very nice. I think you encounter most of the backwardness when you go into the more rural areas. Hell...travel down to southern Pennsylvania and its like you just stepped foot in the farthest hick corner of the world.
 
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