The Problem With Humans And Religion

[Accountable]

Pat Robertson Admits He Got God's Election Prediction Wrong



Uh huh.

:homo:

 

[Minor Axis]

:homo:

For a supreme being, God's people skills and the ability to clearly communicate have always been lacking. What's with that?

 

[Stone]

For a supreme being, God's people skills and the ability to clearly communicate have always been lacking. What's with that?

Ever think the problem is more likely with Pat?

 

[Minor Axis]

Ever think the problem is more likely with Pat?

Pat is emblematic of the problem with humans and religion, who claim to know God, his rules, demands, rewards, punishments, and its post death plans for us, and on a more basic level its existence as we imagine it to be. There is nothing concrete to go on, yet we as a species have managed to create scenarios describing elaborate divine structures, standards and guidance, complicated by self appointed human mouth pieces that demand compliance or eternal damnation. Except the guidance only really appears in our wishful minds, nothing more. One thing that can be said for humans, we have big imaginations.

 

[Stone]

Pat is emblematic of the problem with humans and religion, who claim to know God, his rules, demands, rewards, punishments, and its post death plans for us, and on a more basic level its existence as we imagine it to be. There is nothing concrete to go on, yet we as a species have managed to create scenarios describing elaborate divine structures, standards and guidance, complicated by self appointed human mouth pieces that demand compliance or eternal damnation. Except the guidance only really appears in our wishful minds, nothing more. One thing that can be said for humans, we have big imaginations.

Pat is emblematic of the problem with humans and religion, who claim to know God, his rules, demands, rewards, punishments, and its post death plans for us, and on a more basic level its existence as we imagine it to be.

Problematic because of his radical fundamentalist views, indeed.

Uh huh. I imagine God is shaking his head in bewilderment wondering how Pat missed his Obama button

How do you ( Minor Axis ) imagine an event concerning a concept you don't believe in?
Rhetoric to please yourself?

For a supreme being, God's people skills and the ability to clearly communicate have always been lacking. What's with that?

And I pointed out the problem is more likely on Pat's end.....and you seemed to agree.

Pat is emblematic of the problem with humans and religion, who claim to know God

The qualifier being those that claim to know by conversing with God.....in the literal sense.
That's a trait of fundamentalism.
If you were to say, Pat is emblematic of fundamentalists and their views of religion, I would agree.
Much of the rest of Christianity 'knows' God through the Bible by way of the 'teacher's' ( minister/priest/etc ) interpretations.
And I do realize you hate the Christian Bible for it.
So Pat isn't emblematic of all of religion, he's problematic by representing much of fundamentalism.

There is nothing concrete to go on, yet we as a species have managed to create scenarios describing elaborate divine structures, standards and guidance, complicated by self appointed human mouth pieces that demand compliance or eternal damnation.

Sounds like you missed that gravy train and got stuck backing a spirit world scenario that is a hard sell.......'faith' envy? That's a new one.....

 

[Tim]

keep going... this is quite entertaining indeed

 

[Stone]

keep going... this is quite entertaining indeed

I also find it entertaining

 

[MsPoppy]

We will never be on the same page about any of this stuff. It is amazing to me how intensely identified some people are to their personal beliefs.

 

[Minor Axis]

I find it quite funny that you make fun of MA's beliefs when you subscribe to the same beliefs with just a different flavor of crazy.

How any sane intelligent person can believe in a god is beyond my comprehension. And for me to sit here watching you idiots fight over which delusion is the right one provides me with countless hours of entertainment.

While I am Agnostic, I do not believe in God, only because there is not enough evidence to believe in anything specific. So please (if you are) stop lumping me in with theists.

However, I want there to be an afterlife, plus or minus God, either way is fine. But the key word is "want", not "believe". Why do I want this? Because the continuation of consciousness is a very desirable thing. It gives purpose to life and hope for a coherent future, the epitome of a happy ending, or continuation if you prefer. Why? Bottom line, it comforts me. If I view my life and observe what takes place around the globe, there is absolutely no indication if there is a God, (as we think of God), that religious leaders have the direct pipeline to the divine who passes along secret messages of hope, tells us the outcome of horse races, or tells us which decision to make. We are on Earth. It's all about us, what we discover and decide, not what we are told to do. If there is a God, he has failed, if the goal is clear communication and a desire for humans to realize he is up there, and more importantly why he is there.

Once the dimension of an eternal afterlife or heaven is inserted into the equation, does it matter one hoot what happens on Earth? If there is a purpose in this life, it is to experience obstacles and learn from them. Of course it would help if there is an afterlife to carry forward lessons learned. If you are the religious type or not, forget about punishment based religion. My advice is to live as good a life as you can, and in the end, you'll be covered.

As an Atheist, do you believe there is a purpose to life? Is there a universal ideal level of human "perfection" that should be strived for, and if so, how is that established/determined? Could there be a standard embedded into us as a species? I tend to think that there is a base standard of goodness that we move towards once we can separate our intellect from our animal survival origins. But it's just a feeling, no proof I can point at.

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Stone]

While I am Agnostic, I do not believe in God, only because there is not enough evidence to believe in anything specific. So please (if you are) stop lumping me in with theists.

However, I want there to be an afterlife, plus or minus God, either way is fine. But the key word is "want", not "believe". Why do I want this? Because the continuation of consciousness is a very desirable thing. It gives purpose to life and hope for a coherent future, the epitome of a happy ending, or continuation if you prefer. Why? Bottom line, it comforts me. If I view my life and observe what takes place around the globe, there is absolutely no indication if there is a God, (as we think of God), that religious leaders have the direct pipeline to the divine who passes along secret messages of hope, tells us the outcome of horse races, or tells us which decision to make. We are on Earth. It's all about us, what we discover and decide, not what we are told to do. If there is a God, he has failed, if the goal is clear communication and a desire for humans to realize he is up there, and more importantly why he is there.

Once the dimension of an eternal afterlife or heaven is inserted into the equation, does it matter one hoot what happens on Earth? If there is a purpose in this life, it is to experience obstacles and learn from them. Of course it would help if there is an afterlife to carry forward lessons learned. If you are the religious type or not, forget about punishment based religion. My advice is to live as good a life as you can, and in the end, you'll be covered.

As an Atheist, do you believe there is a purpose to life? Is there a universal ideal level of human "perfection" that should be strived for, and if so, how is that established/determined? Could there be a standard embedded into us as a species? I tend to think that there is a base standard of goodness that we move towards once we can separate our intellect from our animal survival origins. But it's just a feeling, no proof I can point at.

MA....you are all over the 'map' using sophistry as a rationale for it.
You once used the term 'hope' and now refer to your religious beliefs as 'wants' ------>

You 'want' God to be a scientific studyable concept.
And yet, that's contrary to the concept.
Simply put.....that's above our ability.

Bottom line, it comforts me. If I view my life and observe what takes place around the globe, there is absolutely no indication if there is a God

Perhaps you aren't considering the right questions?
Why is there existence? And to those that have argued in the evolution threads.....this is not the watchmaker argument.
Why is there existence of all matter, energy and the physical laws of their relationships?
So what takes place around the globe is a very narrow view......considering existence more relevant.

Once the dimension of an eternal afterlife or heaven is inserted into the equation, does it matter one hoot what happens on Earth?

Of course it does. It concerns redemption after death that non-belief doesn't offer.
This is the distinction between faith and non-faith.
Redemption is the believers argument and goal.

If there is a purpose in this life, it is to experience obstacles and learn from them. Of course it would help if there is an afterlife to carry forward lessons learned.

And we are off again on your religious belief concerning a spirit world with out a creator.
I asked you before......where does this religion originate from?
Or did you derive it on your own?

 

[Minor Axis]

MA....you are all over the 'map' using sophistry as a rationale for it.
You once used the term 'hope' and now refer to your religious beliefs as 'wants' ------>

You want to have a serious discussion with me, stop accusing me of "sophistry". It serves no purpose in a basic faith-based discussion. And I'm not referring to man created documents. If you want to discuss sophistry, the perfect document would be the Holy Bible. Can't you understand that?

And if your intent is to say I am intentionally misleading, then fuck off.

How many times do I have to tell you, I have nothing that qualifies as "beliefs". You can make fun of my wants and hopes and assign beliefs to every statement I make, as the theological superior you imagine yourself to be, but primarily you illustrate an inability or refusal to speculate. Religion, spiritualism is perfect for and demands speculation. Bottom line, I've got better things to do then entertain you one on one if you goal is to make it at my expense.

You 'want' God to be a scientific studyable concept.

BS, I have never said or implied that. Apparently this kind of sophistry is the only way you can engage anyone who disagrees. There is no point in continuing...

 

[Stone]

You want to have a serious discussion with me, stop accusing me of "sophistry". It serves no purpose in a basic faith-based discussion. And I'm not referring to man created documents. If you want to discuss sophistry, the perfect document would be the Holy Bible. Can't you understand that?

And if your intent is to say I am intentionally misleading, then fuck off.

How many times do I have to tell you, I have nothing that qualifies as "beliefs". You can make fun of my wants and hopes and assign beliefs to every statement I make, as the theological superior you imagine yourself to be, but primarily you illustrate an inability or refusal to speculate. Religion, spiritualism is perfect for and demands speculation. Bottom line, I've got better things to do then entertain you one on one if you goal is to make it at my expense.


BS, I have never said or implied that. Apparently this kind of sophistry is the only way you can engage anyone who disagrees. There is no point in continuing...

You want to have a serious discussion with me, stop accusing me of "sophistry".

As long as you keep posting as you do, I see no reason to stop as it is fallacious logic......and this is a debate forum.

It serves no purpose in a basic faith-based discussion.

Says you.

And I'm not referring to man created documents.

wtf are you now referring to?.....

If you want to discuss sophistry

I'd rather not and I wish you'd stop.

If you want to discuss sophistry, the perfect document would be the Holy Bible. Can't you understand that?

Of course I understand your intentions.....you hate the Christian Bible and are desperate to divert the discussion to theology. Fundamentalist style.
This thread isn't so much about about theology as it's about the impact that theology has upon society and you have recently claimed by way of Robertson that fundamentalism is the standard for Christianity. But it isn't.

And if your intent is to say I am intentionally misleading, then fuck off.

But you are misleading!.....:eek
Sometimes you argue as an agnostic, sometimes an atheist and sometimes as a believer in a structure you call an Earth Simulator spirit world.
Slick.....that's what all over the map means

How many times do I have to tell you, I have nothing that qualifies as "beliefs".

At this point, I suspect you'd have better luck convincing readers that have missed your past statements on your beliefs :cool

You can make fun of my wants and hopes and assign beliefs to every statement I make

Thank you for the permission, but I intended to anyway because I see you as a hypocrite.

as the theological superior you imagine yourself to be, but primarily you illustrate an inability or refusal to speculate.

WTF........I just challenged you in a past post to extend your speculation.
You failed to respond......like I'm surprised at that :cool

Bottom line, I've got better things to do then entertain you one on one if you goal is to make it at my expense.

I'll take that as a 'win'......

There is no point in continuing

I know......you are finished, but you'll probably respond sooner or later....

 

[Minor Axis]

I'll take that as a 'win'......

You don't know what winning means...

 

[Stone]

You don't know what winning means...

Well, I know it doesn't include all the whining you do........

 

[The Man]

................
................................................................... There is no point in continuing...

Sounds like defeat MA.

 

[The Man]

You don't know what winning means...

Ahh...like your deficit chart in another thread,

 

[Tim]

Ahh...like your deficit chart in another thread,

:24:

I knew it wouldn't take long. I knew you'd be along to suck stones dick so to speak. Where one is, the other is sure to follow to claim victory or to stoke each others ego.

I wouldn't be surprised if stone and tm were redneck brothers living in their mothers basement sharing a computer.

 

[Tim]

I find it funny that tm had absolutely nothing to add to this thread, his only appearance was to give his brother a pat on the back.

 

[Stone]

:24:

I knew it wouldn't take long. I knew you'd be along to suck stones dick so to speak. Where one is, the other is sure to follow to claim victory or to stoke each others ego.

I wouldn't be surprised if stone and tm were redneck brothers living in their mothers basement sharing a computer.

Are you OK, Tim?
You seem a little upset........