The Patriots In Exile Club 11/5/2008- really?

[Valde Bovis]

So you don't think Obama is a U.S. citizen?

No I do not-

I don't think Bush was elected President.

Show me any one of the counts that said he did not win the vote count, please.

Do you also think he is a closet muslim?

I think he has a pseudo false religious uptake that is primarily politically motivated, he uses his religion to gain politically.

It sounds like one of those desperate partisan hijinks that a certain political party is known for.

Thats what I just said- Obama uses anything he can to gain politically.

I'm curious how far do you take your principles? You sound just like General James Scott in Seven Days In May (outstanding movie!) who not being happy with how democracy is going, decides to over throw it. Fortunately that is not how democracies function and remain democracies. BTW, I'm not accusing you of planning on over throwing the government at this point in time.

I'm willing to accept the consequences for my actions. In all capacities under all conditions- I live free, and I will excercise my freedom inside the US Constitution, and I will fight to protect and defend it as I need to in whatever capacity that may come to.

Problem 1- You are using Bush as some kind of standard for your support. So much for high standards, at least high enough that you can support him. I rate him as the worst President of my life time. Yeah, Nixon broke into the Watergate hotel, but at least he was a competent executive. Attacking Iraq for 9/11 was the most negligent, devious, corruption of Presidential power I am aware of and makes Nixon's crime looks petty in comparison. Yeah, Clinton had an affair, that the Republican speaker of the house railed against, while he, the speaker was having an affair with his a member of his staff. Besides that Clinton was a good President in most things I care about other than that stupid NAFTA, bastard! During Clinton's time as President the Republican party spent 8 years and millions of tax payer dollars trying to nail him for a variety of things motivated by political advantage. All they could get was Monica. Oh yeah, and the Clintons had Vince Foster murdered. :smiley24:

I'm not using Bush for anything. Thats your assumption- I merely said i agree with him militarily speaking, he did good in my book.

Problem 2- Compromise is necessary in any human system. You take a large number of people and most of them will not see eye to eye. The only effective Congress people compromise on a daily basis to get things accomplished. Right now it's a major problem with the Republican party- the inability to compromise and intolerance to other views. Again, it's your way or the highway.

There are certain principles on which I will not compromise on, If I like strawberry jelly and you liek grape jelly and were making a PB&J's for a fishin trip I may cave in a time or two and eat grape just cause were fishin buds- but when it comes to negotiating with terrorists it aint gonn happen on my watch. Or if your trying to get passsed an abortion bll you can forget it I will not vote for any abortion ever, for any reason- or f your tellin me to go tell Israel not to defend themselves agaisnt Iran you can forget it- Israel has that right same as us and I wont compromise on any of that kind of thing- Some times one must stand on absolutes and stand and fight, what kind of men are we if we allow the innocent to be murdered in gangland shootings then only give the bastards murderers 7 years and let them go?

Finally if you are worried about national sovernity, you need to research how conservatives relate to big business. I supposed you hold the large multinational corporations in high esteem, the one who are typically backed with a blind eye, for the sake of "good" business by the Republicans.

You need to really stop the assumptions and ask me rather than infomr me on what I stand on- any corp/bank or entity that assumes to legally or illegally bilk the common man out of anything deserves to be rail tried and convicted for harming the innocent.

How abotu we apply that same concept to government and fry some of those bastards like you want ot do with thos ebig corps- after all the federal government is nothign more than one big giant corp- its the largest dang beauracrcy in the wold- And we have no say in it anymore- the little commoner cant even get a reply to a little letter to his congresswoman.

 

[Valde Bovis]

It was greedy bastard investment banks, mortgage companies, politicians and inept car companies who fucked it up partially due to an unrelenting push by Republicans/conservatives to deregulate EVERYTHING in the name of profits. Now the government is doing what must be done to avoid a full blown circa 1929 depression. I supposed you be happier if we just the chips fall where they may? :smiley24:

If you are going to erupt and want some credibility, you can also acknowledge the events leading to this mess and assign some responsibility to someone in addition to Obama.

It wasnt just repubs there bud- those guys are in it together, the window dressing is thier fiegned outrage- just like Nancy 'liar' Pelosi's approval of enhanced interrogation techn. She wa sin it when it suited her image and she got busted- when are you gonna wake up and see that both major parties are so full of themsleves that it isnt even funny. Heck, the two party dems/repubs has now one-upped the WWF in fakeness!

 

[Minor Axis]

Suffering Bovis fatigue, need rest...

 

[SgtSpike]

Sarge both parties were involved in the bank regulations. It is too simplistic to blame the bank problems on Clinton and the dems or the reps though. The lack of regulations which both parties are to blame for and the push to give people loans they could not afford was a large factor. But the bottom line is the banks played a shell game. That is what sickens me and why I wanted them to go under. No accountability and that should scare the shit out of everybody. Even the great one Obama has given them basically a free pass. We sold our soul to the bankers 100 years ago. Now was the time to take control and instead we have what Bush did and Obama continues.

Ok, I'll give you that - both parties were indeed involved and at fault. Bush could have reverse the terrible legislations that Clinton enacted on those companies. I still blame Clinton for starting it though.

And I would even say that the banks got greedy, too. Not trying to take the blame off of them. They saw how much money they could make by taking on subprime mortgages, and took on a few too many. Which is why they should have gone under.

As it is, banks today and in the future can look at 2008/2009, and just say heck with it, I'll take as many subprime mortgages as I can to make bank off of them. If the economy turns belly up, the government will give our bank money to keep going, so it doesn't matter.

I would have much rather seen the banks go under, and the economy turn sour for a few years longer, just so those people could learn their lesson and so people in the future would not make the same mistake. That is, after all, why we learn history, is it not?

 

[Alien Allen]

Sarge you still are missing my point. The sub prime mortgages were sold and leveraged by the banks. If they had not compounded things with that shell game then things would not have been nearly as bad. The subprimes were part of the problem but how they dealt with them was another key factor in making things go south so fast

 

[KpAtch3s]

You hate social security? I'm not saying there are no problems, but that might be the only pension you ever get. Oh, never mind, just work till you drop dead.

When SS was implemented, it wasn't intended to be something for you live off of. And really? I'm 24, the SS will be bankrupt long before I ever get the chance earn my wasted dollars back. If someones only investment is the government, then they deserve to be in the position they are in.

It was greedy bastard investment banks, mortgage companies, politicians and inept car companies who fucked it up partially due to an unrelenting push by Republicans/conservatives to deregulate EVERYTHING in the name of profits. Now the government is doing what must be done to avoid a full blown circa 1929 depression. I supposed you be happier if we just the chips fall where they may? :smiley24:

If you are going to erupt and want some credibility, you can also acknowledge the events leading to this mess and assign some responsibility to someone in addition to Obama.

I don't have much more to add to everyone else response to this. I'm not going to pin the problem on Bush. And my statement had no association with Bush. I was referring that the government now is the largest land owner in the US and owns GM and Chrysler. THAT is Obama's doing. Nobody else's.

 

[SgtSpike]

Sarge you still are missing my point. The sub prime mortgages were sold and leveraged by the banks. If they had not compounded things with that shell game then things would not have been nearly as bad. The subprimes were part of the problem but how they dealt with them was another key factor in making things go south so fast

Explain what you mean by the "shell game" and how it made things go downhill. As far as I know, ALL mortgages are sold and leveraged by the banks, and I see nothing wrong with it.

 

[KpAtch3s]

Sarge you still are missing my point. The sub prime mortgages were sold and leveraged by the banks. If they had not compounded things with that shell game then things would not have been nearly as bad. The subprimes were part of the problem but how they dealt with them was another key factor in making things go south so fast

They were sold and leveraged by the banks because of pressure placed on them from politicians. They weren't giving enough loans to poor people and warned them of legal action. They then told them that if they defaulted on the loans that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (pseudo gov. corporations) would take them off their hands. So obviously they would sell as many subprime mortgages as they could. Why not? The government will take them off our hands? The base of the problem lies in the hands of the government and leads back to Clinton.

 

[Alien Allen]

Explain what you mean by the "shell game" and how it made things go downhill. As far as I know, ALL mortgages are sold and leveraged by the banks, and I see nothing wrong with it.

I do not know if I can find the one article I read a couple of weeks ago that explained it. It was in Rolling Stone

 

[siasl]

They were sold and leveraged by the banks because of pressure placed on them from politicians. They weren't giving enough loans to poor people and warned them of legal action. They then told them that if they defaulted on the loans that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (pseudo gov. corporations) would take them off their hands. So obviously they would sell as many subprime mortgages as they could. Why not? The government will take them off our hands? The base of the problem lies in the hands of the government and leads back to Clinton.

that's a reasonable assessment....but it only covers one side of the story.....the mistakes of compassion
don't forget this side
the mistakes of greed.

 

[Alien Allen]

that's a reasonable assessment....but it only covers one side of the story.....the mistakes of compassion
don't forget this side
the mistakes of greed.

I don't think that was the article I recall. I forgot who posted it over at another site. But I looked for it and this does not look like that one.

 

[Minor Axis]

Explain what you mean by the "shell game" and how it made things go downhill. As far as I know, ALL mortgages are sold and leveraged by the banks, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Figures...