The land of religious tolerance

[Tim]

It's also quite telling when someone has absolutely no problem serving up judgement on others beliefs when they aren't even willing to discuss their own.

 

[Stone]

It's also quite telling when someone has absolutely no problem serving up judgement on others beliefs when they aren't even willing to discuss their own.

Really?....what judgement did I serve up on Atheists?
They have the same character flaws of the religious factions. Merely in a different format

Like MA....you're just overly sensitive to reality.
You like to project the perfection of your own beliefs but take offense when confronted with reality.

And I'm no newcomer to the concept of debate, I'm merely a newish member of this debate forum
Your beliefs are what they are no matter what anyone else believes in.

 

[Tim]

Really?....what judgement did I serve up on Atheists?
They have the same character flaws of the religious factions. Merely in a different format

Like MA....you're just overly sensitive to reality.
You like to project the perfection of your own beliefs but take offense when confronted with reality.

And I'm no newcomer to the concept of debate, I'm merely a newish member of this debate forum
Your beliefs are what they are no matter what anyone else believes in.

Really?....what judgement did I serve up on Atheists?
They have the same character flaws of the religious factions. Merely in a different format

Well let's start with the straw man argument that you keep going back to, that atheist regimes are murderous and barbaric. You associate it to the fact that the leaders are supposedly atheist. You might as well say that they were all barbaric because they all had mustaches... without any backing the comparison is valid

Like MA....you're just overly sensitive to reality.
You like to project the perfection of your own beliefs but take offense when confronted with reality.

Actually I'm not sensitive to anything here. If I was, then I wouldn't put myself out there to be dissected and debated.
You seem to be the only one here that is hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. I really don't care what your beliefs are or why you believe them, but don't be surprised when that removes some of the credibility of your statements regarding beliefs and religion. For all I know you are a Scientology whack job.. :dunno:

 

[Minor Axis]

Like MA....you're just overly sensitive to Stone's reality.

I fixed your post for you.

 

[Tim]

Really?....what judgement did I serve up on Atheists?

And i want to make sure something is clear here...

I really don't care what you assign to atheists or how you feel about them. Because we aren't a group nor do we have a group think mentality. There is no playbook, no meetings, no agenda, no required reading material and no association...

Unlike those of you in religion that feel the need to come together and defend your position, I don't have a position to defend. Out of the thousands of gods and religions throughout history, I believe in one fewer than you do. Attacking my stance of not believing in "your" personal god would be the same as me attacking you for not believing in Ra. Pretty silly if you ask me

 

[Stone]

Stone,
You really are insincere. Blurting "rhetoric" every time you hear something you don't like, will only carry you so far. And as far as my "beliefs, offered up", you are imaging them. During my presence in the OTZ forums, I've only acknowledged one standard, Agnostic. Free free to criticize that. Promoting philosophical positions I've taken on hypothetical premises, as my beliefs is your attempt at a misinformation program designed to undermine my positions. The Earth Sim is a premise, not a belief. Keep trying.

And as far as my "beliefs, offered up", you are imaging them.

Slick.....even the forum atheist made fun of your Earth Simulator religion
Now you claim you don't remember? LOL!

During my presence in the OTZ forums, I've only acknowledged one standard, Agnostic.

I am only aware of what you've posted since I joined this forum......and I've seen you present your religious beliefs and claim to be an agnostic at the same time.
They do appear to be contradictory.

 

[Stone]

And i want to make sure something is clear here...

I really don't care what you assign to atheists or how you feel about them. Because we aren't a group nor do we have a group think mentality. There is no playbook, no meetings, no agenda, no required reading material and no association...

Unlike those of you in religion that feel the need to come together and defend your position, I don't have a position to defend. Out of the thousands of gods and religions throughout history, I believe in one fewer than you do. Attacking my stance of not believing in "your" personal god would be the same as me attacking you for not believing in Ra. Pretty silly if you ask me

I really don't care what you assign to atheists or how you feel about them.

I haven't asked you to explain yourself nor have I been judgmental of your non-belief.
But I have seen you be judgmental of Christian believers......you posted a giant image of it and at the same time claim you have a correction to bring betterment.....you presented a debatable point and at the same are critical of those that disagree with your premise.
Like GIA, you seem to want to use the debate forum for billboarding your opinions as facts with out the debate.

Because we aren't a group nor do we have a group think mentality. There is no playbook, no meetings, no agenda, no required reading material and no association...

Until an opportunist the likes of Stalin or Pol Pot assembles a following, that is.
Sure, you like to take to the pedestal and glorify your position......and when it's pointed out that your luster isn't as bright as you claim......you go hostile.

Unlike those of you in religion that feel the need to come together and defend your position

Judgmental much, hypocrite

Out of the thousands of gods and religions throughout history, I believe in one fewer than you do.

Rhetoric
You seem to forget.....I don't give a shit what you think. I'm debating what you claim and post :cool

Attacking my stance of not believing in "your" personal god would be the same as me attacking you for not believing in Ra. Pretty silly if you ask me

I didn't ask....you offered that opinion. And that's all it is to me.....your opinion.

 

[The Man]

Yes Evolution.
Both true and false.
There is no proof we came from monkey nor does the chromosome count match.
But yes I do believe in other species evolving
Man did not go through the monkey stage.
Evolution is responsible for the adaptation and the psyche of creatures with thought process.
Man is no exception.
Man has been through many wars and had many false beliefs along the way..such as the earth is flat.
We used to plummet each other with rocks and other crude weapons...Man has evolved to more efficient weapons
Religion is no exception we have many religions/ and religions them selves have evolved...as mans psyche changes / it evolves through the stages/ many battles and many deaths due to religious intolerance, some swift in conquer while some lasting for decades as battles evolve through the evolution of mans psyche

Yes Evolution is the cause.....Religion and its intolerances are the result of evolution

Ahhh yes, just imagine a world with no evolution.

Someday mankind will outgrow this madness but until then we need to put up with crap like this

A Utopia of sort awaits





Sorry Tim just couldnt pass it up...one last grind

 

[Minor Axis]

Slick.....even the forum atheist made fun of your Earth Simulator religion
Now you claim you don't remember? LOL!
I am only aware of what you've posted since I joined this forum......and I've seen you present your religious beliefs and claim to be an agnostic at the same time.
They do appear to be contradictory.

If you won't accept my stated beliefs and have to resort to fabricating your points so be it. I'm happy as long as you're exposed.

_________________________________________

Actually I'm not sensitive to anything here. If I was, then I wouldn't put myself out there to be dissected and debated.

I've only acknowledged one standard, Agnostic. Free free to criticize that. Promoting philosophical positions I've taken on hypothetical premises, as my beliefs is your attempt at a misinformation program designed to undermine my positions.

BTW....since I anticipate your asking me what my core beliefs are, that's not going to happen either as I have no intention of putting them out there for debate and taking a flogging as some narrow minded twit will continue intentionally swapping theology for empiricism.

To have a meaningful debate, you have to know the participants positions to know if they are debating what they believe or just spouting BS. When someone calls themselves a Christian, that basis defines them. Although you (Stone) spend most of your time in this forum defending Christianity, I don't recall you saying the words. Stand up for Christ and your God, or go snivel in the corner as an intellectual chicken. You've not risen to the test until you've put yourself up to be dissected. Declare yourself and take the time to figure out what "rhetoric" means.

 

[Dana]

Ahhh, just imagine a world with no religion.

Someday mankind will outgrow this madness but until then we need to put up with crap like this

I think you're giving humanity too much credit.

 

[The Man]

I think you're giving humanity too much credit.

I agree.
As many other conflicts have occurred that were not religious driven.
The worse being within ones own nation

 

[Stone]

Well let's start with the straw man argument that you keep going back to, that atheist regimes are murderous and barbaric. You associate it to the fact that the leaders are supposedly atheist. You might as well say that they were all barbaric because they all had mustaches... without any backing the comparison is valid



Actually I'm not sensitive to anything here. If I was, then I wouldn't put myself out there to be dissected and debated.
You seem to be the only one here that is hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. I really don't care what your beliefs are or why you believe them, but don't be surprised when that removes some of the credibility of your statements regarding beliefs and religion. For all I know you are a Scientology whack job.. :dunno:

Well let's start with the straw man argument that you keep going back to, that atheist regimes are murderous and barbaric. You associate it to the fact that the leaders are supposedly atheist. You might as well say that they were all barbaric because they all had mustaches... without any backing the comparison is valid

Let's look at the logic of this situation and consider the terms you are using.

I've pointed out that atheists are just as capable of atrocities as those made in the name of religion.
I presented historical evidence of this.
There was no exaggeration . It happened and exists as a future possibility.
Your comment is actually the strawman fallacy.
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#straw
excerpt>

attacking an exaggerated or caricatured version of your opponent's position.

I should point out you've gone way past exaggeration and into the realm of being disingenuous.
My comments stand as proof and it's up to you to prove otherwise.
You and MA are simply too used to kicking the crap out of fundamentalists and have obviously become so intellectually lazy, you fall back on old arguments that just don't work in the current discussion.

And it's obviously vociferous rhetoric.
You don't seem interested in debate.
You want your stage uninterrupted.
But this is a debate forum......so tough shit

Actually I'm not sensitive to anything here.

Your posts betray you

If I was, then I wouldn't put myself out there to be dissected and debated.

Review your posts......there hardly any debate, mostly unsupported claims and most of your replies aren't structured as rebuttal.......a lot of whining....not as much as MA.....but it is obvious.

You seem to be the only one here that is hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.

And I'm not the one fronting absurd claims with out foundation.
Nor have I exaggerated your position.
Go back and review ( I know you won't ) but those that take me up on that will see that you have made unfounded claims about 'betterment' and now whine about my rebuttal.
Your whining, vociferous rhetoric and strawman fallacy is a tell, Tim......you have no logical rebuttal.

I really don't care what your beliefs are or why you believe them

Good for you....but why whine about my not presenting my beliefs for debate if that was true?
Rhetorical question, obviously.
You are unable to defend your own claims and are looking for diversion.
You aren't very good at diversions.

but don't be surprised when that removes some of the credibility of your statements regarding beliefs and religion.

Sincerely......I'm not looking for your approval.
It appears the only thing that's going to surprise me is you defending your claims using logic

For all I know you are a Scientology whack job.. :dunno

At this point, I'm not concerned about what you think

 

[robdawg1]

whenever stone and tim or MA start hacking at each other the threads start to get a little....meh

 

[Minor Axis]

You and MA are simply too used to kicking the crap out of fundamentalists and have obviously become so intellectually lazy, you fall back on old arguments that just don't work in the current discussion.
And it's obviously vociferous rhetoric.
You don't seem interested in debate.
You want your stage uninterrupted.
But this is a debate forum......so tough shit

Man are you ARE full of yourself. Look in the mirror when you say that. Your first task is to stop fabricating BS in your debate attempts. It just stymies the conversation. Or is that your goal?

whenever stone and tim or MA start hacking at each other the threads start to get a little....meh

Ignore the top part of this post. I apologize and promise to try to behave myself in the future. In fact I know what needs to be done.

Just took care of it.

 

[The Man]

whenever stone and tim or MA start hacking at each other the threads start to get a little....meh

This is the debate area...It has nothing to do with us three..it is what the debate section is for Rob
The argument section..debate by definition is essentially "to argue"

Notice how I essentially agree with your Ideals in the other sections of the forum?
But here I will find something wrong with them

 

[Stone]

If you won't accept my stated beliefs and have to resort to fabricating your points so be it. I'm happy as long as you're exposed.

_________________________________________






To have a meaningful debate, you have to know the participants positions to know if they are debating what they believe or just spouting BS. When someone calls themselves a Christian, that basis defines them. Although you (Stone) spend most of your time in this forum defending Christianity, I don't recall you saying the words. Stand up for Christ and your God, or go snivel in the corner as an intellectual chicken. You've not risen to the test until you've put yourself up to be dissected. Declare yourself and take the time to figure out what "rhetoric" means.

I'm happy as long as you're exposed.

You must really love the pain you've been experiencing ......

To have a meaningful debate,...

Let me guess....you went to a dictionary and upon looking up the definition of 'critique' ....took my advice and changed tactics

you have to know the participants positions to know if they are debating what they believe or just spouting BS

Well....I think I know you positions pretty well in regards to splitting your belief system between being a believer of a religious concept and the contradictory position of being an agnostic.
So I'm calling bullshit on you.
I have no problems with that and you seem agreeable to the concept till I put into practice
You seem to forget.....I'm not making debatable claims about my beliefs......so there's nothing there that should upset you.
But like Tim, I suspect you've gotten lazy from abusing fundamentalists and haven't realized the same shtick doesn't work on non fundamentalists.......oh the pain you beg for :eek......

Although you (Stone) spend most of your time in this forum defending Christianity

Nope.....I'm here to debate the standing claims when/if I see something of interest.
I've made no claims of religion being superior.
Like Tim, you're merely fishing for diversion.......and I seldom let myself go there
Don't like it......tough.....it merely demonstrates you can't logically defend your own claims in a debate.

You've not risen to the test until you've put yourself up to be dissected.

You forgot the 'IMO' .......loser

 

[Stone]

whenever stone and tim or MA start hacking at each other the threads start to get a little....meh

That's what happens when the losers attempt diversion......the core debate issue gets over looked.
The debate on 'betterment' ended long ago, and now the losers are seeking retribution

That doesn't look like it's working out very well for them, either :24:

 

[Stone]

Man are you ARE full of yourself. Look in the mirror when you say that. Your first task is to stop fabricating BS in your debate attempts. It just stymies the conversation. Or is that your goal?



Ignore the top part of this post. I apologize and promise to try to behave myself in the future. In fact I know what needs to be done.

Just took care of it.

Man are you ARE full of yourself. Look in the mirror when you say that. Your first task is to stop fabricating BS in your debate attempts. It just stymies the conversation. Or is that your goal?

Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,
whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,
whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine,
whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine,

whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,
whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine,
whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,whine, whine, whine, whine,



.

Ignore the top part of this post.

.:thumbup

.

I apologize and promise to try to behave myself in the future.......

I doubt anyone believes you

 

[The Man]

Yes Evolution.
Both true and false.
There is no proof we came from monkey nor does the chromosome count match.
But yes I do believe in other species evolving
Man did not go through the monkey stage.
Evolution is responsible for the adaptation and the psyche of creatures with thought process.
Man is no exception.
Man has been through many wars and had many false beliefs along the way..such as the earth is flat.
We used to plummet each other with rocks and other crude weapons...Man has evolved to more efficient weapons
Religion is no exception we have many religions/ and religions them selves have evolved...as mans psyche changes / it evolves through the stages/ many battles and many deaths due to religious intolerance, some swift in conquer while some lasting for decades as battles evolve through the evolution of mans psyche

Yes Evolution is the cause.....Religion and its intolerances are the result of evolution

Ahhh yes, just imagine a world with no evolution.

Someday mankind will outgrow this madness but until then we need to put up with crap like this

A Utopia of sort awaits





Sorry Tim just couldnt pass it up...one last grind

So Rob can you explain again about evolution and foreseen Utopia

 

[Tim]

You still don't get it, do you?

I don't want you or any of your friends to give up anything and I wouldn't ever think it would happen.

I'm talking about the changes in societies over many generations. Just look at the history of religion and beliefs over the last 3000 years and you will see a trend. Now follow that out a few more thousand years and you might see what I am talking about.

Oh....I get it.

Your argument appears to be...... that by removing faith and accepting atheism across cultural boundaries, conflicts between societies and cultures will cease and violence will abate.
The have-nots will no longer have reason to hate the haves......I am doubtful.

There will always be reasons to hate, Tim.
With global warming, a future over many generations will likely reflect more conflict as competition for the basics of life outstrip source. Even now, food riots are projected in parts of the world in the next few years because of global warming and low crop yields. This will only become more intense in the future as populations grow, global warming advances and world crop yield declines.
The dust bowl years in the US produced intense intolerance based upon geography and water issues. A culture conflict between states....in one nation!
And energy.....oil being a major source of energy for all of civilization and there being a finite supply, will be seeing shortages that are likely to drive more Iraq scenarios.

I don't see the peace in future generations that you do, with or with out the acceptance of atheism.
Mankind will kill in it's quest to survive and prosper..... it's leaders use any rationale close at hand they think assures it's success...remember the rationale using UN articles to invade Iraq even though the UN wouldn't sanction it?

Oh, yeah.....I get it.

Back to the debate that you said didn't exist. If we look at these last two posts before The Man decided to take it in a completely different direction you can see our two points are missing each other. Let me see if I can explain what my position is a little clearer so we can get past all of the mud slinging.

Thousands of years ago mankind had very primitive religions that over many years evolved into many different beliefs. As the centuries passed so did the changes in religion. Sometimes they died out while others combined or changed to fit the times. One of the biggest change for religion was enlightenment of the people through science. And in the last hundred years or so there has been an explosion in the number of Atheists. It's actually the fastest growing segment of population compared to any religion. There is a reason for this and it's a trend that will naturally progress throughout the years.
Now in my opinion, if you follow this out for the next 1000 or so years religion will all but have vanished from the face of the earth. No one will force it out, there will be no dictators killing off the religious, it will just be a natural progression through the enlightenment of man. Just like those who believed the world is flat... yes, there are STILL some that believe it's flat, but for the most part they are gone. Now let me make this clear, this is how I see the world in 1000 years or so. It just makes sense with the way technology is going and what we have learned in just the last 50 years alone.
Now that we are clear that it's my opinion that religion will be all but gone in the future, we can go back to my original statement.

Ahhh, just imagine a world with no religion.

Someday mankind will outgrow this madness but until then we need to put up with crap like this

This statement was in direct response to the OP post about the riots and death caused by a movie that outraged religious followers.
Now if religion was no longer a factor on planet earth, then you could not have mass killings because of religious intolerance, right???? Exactly what I was responding to.

I was NOT saying the world would be free from violence nor did I ever say that death and destruction would be gone once religion was gone...

Again, I was only addressing the religious intolerance in the OP.

Now go back and reread your posts and you will see that YOU took it down a completely different path, one that I was NOT even addressing.