The God thread...

[Tim]

Here you go Diggin Deep... I'll start off with some of my previous posts on the topic.

You can open your heart to Ra (the sun god) and believe with all your heart. And that will be as real as any other god out there. Do you not see that you believe in something because you want to believe. The only reason you believe in the God of Abraham and not Ra is because of where and when you were born. Doesn't that shake your faith at all? That your beliefs are subject to timing and placement on this little green planet.

I find it more disappointing that those who choose to believe in God don't truly understand that he CANNOT answer prayers.
You would need to fully understand that if you are omnipotent (all knowing) then everything that is going to happen throughout all of time is already known, God's plan. Every decision, every thought, every action, every atrocity that will happen is known until the end of time. And if that's the case then he cannot answer a prayer or change his plan for you because he already knows the outcome. You cannot change that outcome nor do you have free will. So if you are going to believe that there is an all knowing God, know that your path was set and there is nothing you can do to change it, no matter how much you pray.

The funny thing is, the word eternity is thrown around like people can even grasp the concept. Because just when you think you can wrap your mind around how long that actually is, you're not even close.... This is why it is perfectly clear that to tell someone they can burn in a lake of fire for all of eternity, for any reason, is nothing more than a form of control, not a reality.

Has anyone stopped to consider that if we were from another culture or from another time, we would be having the exact same argument, except we wouldn't be talking about God, we would be talking about whatever deity is from that place...

Something for you to ponder... You believe what you do because you were born and raised where you were. If you were born in another part of the world, or into a different family environment, then you could just as easily be arguing that Allah is the only way. Your beliefs and religion are the product of environment. So with the hundreds of religions throughout time, what makes you so sure you have it right? Because they ALL think they are right.

My whole life I was taught to believe in God, but why? If this was discussion about Zeus 500 years ago would you have the same feelings if I said Zeus did not exist vs I don't believe on lack of evidence? Do you see where I am coming from? I believe in God as much as I believe in Zeus, Allah, Unicorns, Leprechauns and fire breathing dragons. Why is it any different? Just because enough people carry on the myth of God it's true, or must be true? There are people that still believe the world is flat and that vampires really exist. That doesn't mean I need to make room for it to be a possibility.

I understand why there is religion, I understand the reason people had a need to believe in something greater than they are. This is exactly why there have been hundreds of different religions throughout the years. And why does it have to be God and not Allah or Buddha, etc? Well that's because of where we grew up... Here in the states, it's God. So how does that lead any credence to the argument when they would be swearing with every breath that it is Allah if were were born in Pakistan. Think about it.

I do not believe in a god or supreme being.

I was raised in a baptist church, up until the age of 18 I went to church 4-5 times a week. I have had the bible taught to me every which way you can imagine. But as I got older and were able to ask more probing questions that did not have answers to them, the more I turned to science. I was a absolute without doubt true believer for many years... But there is one thing that bothered me more than anything else. Something that no pastor could answer...

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

 

[Diggin Deep]

Tim - I hope you don't expect me to reply to all of that in a day Give me some time to work on each statement one at a time I greatly appreciate that you would even consider discussing religion with me. As you and I discuss our beliefs, I hope that I do not come across as "preachy" or as my belief is better than yours...just another side. Again...thank you for the opportunity and hopefully a friendship!

 

[Diggin Deep]

By the way...how do multi quote messages or separate parts of a message in a reply w/out having to copy and paste everything? Thanks in advance!

 

[Tim]

Read the very last quote I posted. It will tell you a lot about me and where I came from.

I wasn't really expecting you to answer each quote... it was more of a snapshot so you can see where I stand and why

 

[Tim]

You can't multiquote out of a singe post. You can only copy and paste

 

[Azazel]

 

[Diggin Deep]

Disclaimer to all those who may read this thread - Christians and non-Christians alike: These are just the accounts of one man's journey with God. The things I will discuss and say are strictly my opinion and my beliefs. If I offend you in any way, I apologize now, because that is not my intent. In my attempt to show my open mindedness, I may come across sometimes as being close mindined - again I'm sorry. Though I have doubts regarding scripture, interpretations, church, and doctrine - my love and faith in God remains. My passion to know and understand the God I believe in and serve grows through my search to find answers to my doubts.

In defense of anyone on here that posts something that disagrees or goes against Christianity, I say this...I believe that having legitimate doubt is essential to sustaining a relationship with God. Having doubt leads to answers, trust and a strengthened faith. So please, I ask that no one bashes another in this thread, because of their belief.

“A faith without some doubt is like a human body without any anti-bodies. People who blindly go thru life, too busy or too indifferent to ask hard questions as to why they believe as they do, will find themselves defenseless.” Tim Keller

Lastly - I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone and by no means am I trying saying I'm right or that "my way" is the only way - that's ultimately up to you to decide.

 

[Diggin Deep]

I find it more disappointing that those who choose to believe in God don't truly understand that he CANNOT answer prayers. You would need to fully understand that if you are omnipotent (all knowing) then everything that is going to happen throughout all of time is already known, God's plan. Every decision, every thought, every action, every atrocity that will happen is known until the end of time. And if that's the case then he cannot answer a prayer or change his plan for you because he already knows the outcome. You cannot change that outcome nor do you have free will. So if you are going to believe that there is an all knowing God, know that your path was set and there is nothing you can do to change it, no matter how much you pray.

Tim -

This is something I wrestle with on a constant basis, even though I think I'm starting to get it figured out, at least for myself. I wrestle a lot with how much of the future God actually knows. Since He is all-knowing, what is the point of prayer and of my existence? He already knows what is going to happen, so really...what is the point? Some people just say that God knows all...period! That is really hard for me to swallow.

The one thing that has been presented to me that I tend to lean towards is this - God only knows the future to the extent the future is knowable, but He's given us as free agents a freedom to affect how things play out (but would not be caught off guard by our decisions). I can't bring myself to believe that God would give us free will to decide to follow Christ or not to follow Him, if He already knew how it would all play out for the individual.

In my opinion, God does have a plan (His will) for me, for us - to believe in, to serve, and to have a personal and eternal relationship with Him. I believe that is the point to which He knows regarding the individual. Because of free will, we are able to choose which road we will take. To truly believe that God knows how everything will play out for each individual contradicts the whole basis of free will, our existence, and the purpose of Jesus Christ.

In my opinion, God is all-knowing in the regards - the world will end, how it will end, that some will follow the path to Heaven and others - to Hell...and that is the part that is unknown and left for us to to decide.

 

[purpledove]

Disclaimer to all those who may read this thread - Christians and non-Christians alike: These are just the accounts of one man's journey with God. The things I will discuss and say are strictly my opinion and my beliefs. If I offend you in any way, I apologize now, because that is not my intent. In my attempt to show my open mindedness, I may come across sometimes as being close mindined - again I'm sorry. Though I have doubts regarding scripture, interpretations, church, and doctrine - my love and faith in God remains. My passion to know and understand the God I believe in and serve grows through my search to find answers to my doubts.

In defense of anyone on here that posts something that disagrees or goes against Christianity, I say this...I believe that having legitimate doubt is essential to sustaining a relationship with God. Having doubt leads to answers, trust and a strengthened faith. So please, I ask that no one bashes another in this thread, because of their belief.

“A faith without some doubt is like a human body without any anti-bodies. People who blindly go thru life, too busy or too indifferent to ask hard questions as to why they believe as they do, will find themselves defenseless.” Tim Keller

Lastly - I am not trying to force my beliefs on anyone and by no means am I trying saying I'm right or that "my way" is the only way - that's ultimately up to you to decide.

:homo: 100 %

I admire you for standing firm for your beliefs. Though many Christians on this forum might have given UP to share their views without necessarily debating about things- but share! You on the other hand have served as an Inspiration !!! Kudos :clap :clap

I am aware of course too that since this is a Debate area hence we can't but expect radical questionings/ doubts to the core. Minus the bashing of course is great :thumbup

 

[purpledove]

Tim -

This is something I wrestle with on a constant basis, even though I think I'm starting to get it figured out, at least for myself. I wrestle a lot with how much of the future God actually knows. Since He is all-knowing, what is the point of prayer and of my existence? He already knows what is going to happen, so really...what is the point? Some people just say that God knows all...period! That is really hard for me to swallow.

The one thing that has been presented to me that I tend to lean towards is this - God only knows the future to the extent the future is knowable, but He's given us as free agents a freedom to affect how things play out (but would not be caught off guard by our decisions). I can't bring myself to believe that God would give us free will to decide to follow Christ or not to follow Him, if He already knew how it would all play out for the individual.

In my opinion, God does have a plan (His will) for me, for us - to believe in, to serve, and to have a personal and eternal relationship with Him. I believe that is the point to which He knows regarding the individual. Because of free will, we are able to choose which road we will take. To truly believe that God knows how everything will play out for each individual contradicts the whole basis of free will, our existence, and the purpose of Jesus Christ.

In my opinion, God is all-knowing in the regards - the world will end, how it will end, that some will follow the path to Heaven and others - to Hell...and that is the part that is unknown and left for us to to decide.

:homo: I myself have lots of doubts/questions I wrestle with everyday. But that's not gonna stop me from believing in God and sharing the personal relationship He has played in my life and my son's! There are many evidences to God's existence IF only others are open minded to see further and search the answers to their questions. They will find answers just like you, I and many other Christians who sought knowledge and answers to their questions

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

Tim -

This will take me a few replies to get to my point, so please bare with me I have spent a lot of time reading your views. Thankfully these are things I've discussed with other people and have researched on my own over the years. I have a lot of things on file and disk...so it will come across as kind of a Bible Study so to speak.

First I would like to talk about Hell and what it is from a biblical standpoint...

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

What is Hell?


The first thing we need to do is to define what we mean by the word hell. This is because the word hell has been used to translate several Hebrew and Greek words.
See Matthew 10:28 The word hell in this scripture actually is translated from the word "Hades," which means the place or state of the dead (departed souls). It is also rendered as unseen world.

It is important to realize that the various words used in the original language identified a place where departed souls resided and it came to refer to the place of eternal punishment. The Old Testament for the most part identifies hell as the grave or the abode of the dead. The New Testament identifies both the grave and the place of punishment, though the latter is referenced more often. Even the underlying Greek word "Hades" sometimes referred to the place of everlasting punishment. It all depended on the context.

In any case, the concept of hell that is revealed in the Bible and that relates to the Christian faith and redemption refers to a place where there is eternal punishment of the unsaved. This is the place where all those who have not been born again will spend eternity. They will be in torment forever and totally separated from God.

The following are some of the descriptions that the Bible gives of hell.

1. Hell is a place of darkness. Being in hell is like being in darkness forever. See Matthew 8:12 and 22:13.
2. Hell is outside the gate of the heavenly city. See Revelation 22:14-15.
3. Hell is away from the presence of God. See Matthew 25:41 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9.
4. Hell is the blackest darkness. See (Jude 13)
5. Hell is the unquenchable fire. See (Mark 9:44)
6. Hell is a place of anguish. See (Luke 16:26)

However, the descriptions given above are thought of as relational. That is, they basically say that hell is where God is not or that it is in the opposite direction of God. For example, God is considered light whereas hell is considered darkness.

There is another very important thing we should realize about the Bible's revelation of hell. The Bible never declares that hell is a torture chamber where people are tortured forever. The bible does indicate that hell is a place of torment (Luke 16:28). However, this torment is due to one's own decision to reject God's salvation and it is evident with the frequent mention of "gnashing of teeth" that this rejection of God continues throughout eternity.

Hell is a place where condemned souls will spend eternity and their condemnation is self imposed as they refused to respond to the love and grace of God through Jesus Christ.

The fire of hell is most likely real (as opposed to being symbolic) but it is not necessarily physical. Remember that we are referring to lost souls not bodies. The body rots in the grave whereas the human soul (or spirit) lives forever either in heaven with God or in hell apart from God. How can a spirit be burned with fire since we won't have the same body?

Another thing to realize in regards to the reality and physical aspects of hell is how hell is described in scripture. For example, at one point it is declared as being a place of darkness as we saw previously. At another point hell is described as being a place of fire. You and I know that fire produces a lot of light so it is impossible for a place to be dark and light at the same time (even God cannot do foolishness or nonsense).

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

Continued...

Justice Requires a Hell

We could not say that God is just if evil people like Hitler were not ultimately punished for their crimes.Also the justice of God would appear flawed if those who have not believed in Jesus Christ as savior and Lord were still allowed to enter heaven. Therefore, we can say that true righteous justice requires that there be a hell (and a heaven for that matter).

Though the wicked appear to prosper in this life and they appear to get away with all types of crimes, we are confident that they will be judged.This means that justice is not always served in our lifetimes, but may occur in eternity.Jesus taught that the justice of God means that there is a hell for the unjustified to spend eternity and there is a heaven where the justified will go.

Consider the consequence if there was no hell.What would happen to those who never received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior?What would happen to people that are mass murderers and who never repent.Consider someone like Hitler.If there were no hell then people such as Hitler would enter heaven just as those who confessed faith in Jesus Christ.This would hardly be just.Justice would be averted even if God were to annihilate the lost souls.There would be no penalties for sin.We can talk more about annihilation later. But for now, suffice it for me to say that the justice of God requires that there be a hell just as there is a heaven.

Free Choice Requires Hell

God created humans with a free will.We can either love God or reject God.The Bible declares that God is love (1 John 4:16) and therefore a loving God does not force himself on us.We could come to this with reason, but the Bible declares that we have a choice to accept Christ and be reconciled to God and the Bible teaches us to love God (Deuteronomy 6:5, Matthew 22:37).If God forced his love on us then there would be no need for such instruction.Furthermore, if God forced us to be saved because of his love then there would be no need to preach the Gospel or the preaching of such would be a moot point since all would be heaven bound anyway.

Since we have the option to love or reject God then there must be someplace for each.Those who are saved remain with the Father in heaven forever.Those who reject God (reject Christ) will remain on the course to hell.Therefore, we chose where we would spend eternity, either heaven or hell.Heaven is the final place for the just and correspondingly, hell is the final place for the unjust.

Final Victory Over Evil Requires a Hell

How can the just have victory over evil when there is no punishment for the evil?There can be no victory over evil if the unsaved are permitted into heaven along with the just.In such a case, the unsaved would receive the same reward as the saved, which is contrary to Scripture.Jesus taught of a final separation between the just and the unjust (Matthew 13:24-30).Therefore, if there were no hell then we could not say that we have victory over evil.There would be no separation at the end of the age.

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

The Doctrines of Hell


There are certain doctrines or teachings that are closely related to the doctrine of hell, which I would like to briefly mention here. Some of the various teachings concerning hell are as follows.

1. Annihilation
2. Temporal
3. Symbolic
4. Eternal

Doctrine of Annihilation

The doctrine of annihilation declares that unregenerate (evil) souls will be annihilated (become no more, non-existent) and the righteous souls will go to heaven. Revelations 20:14 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 are used to support this doctrine. However, careful observation of the Bible's revelation about hell shows that it does not support the concept or doctrine of annihilation.


For one thing the Bible indicates that there is existence in hell (Matthew 8:12) and that those in hell experience and are conscious of their torment. Revelations 19:20 and 20:10 indicates that the beast and the false prophet were not annihilated in hell during the thousand-year imprisonment. Actually, annihilation would be an escape from God's judgment and therefore is not consistent with the Scriptures regarding the wrath of God on all sin.

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

Temporal Hell

Some believe that hell is temporal. In other words, some hold that those who go to hell are only there for a definite period of time as opposed to eternity. There are many problems with this view. First, it presupposes that hell can rehabilitate and furthermore that an unregenerate soul can indeed be rehabilitated. This actually presupposes that a person can be saved after death whereas the Bible declares that we die and then we are judged.

See Hebrews 9:27

The Bible does not suggest or present hell as a temporal place for unregenerate souls to be rehabilitated. Hell is the final place for the unregenerate (unsaved) soul. Hell will last forever because God lives forever and sin must be separated from Him (Psalm 90:1-2, Revelation 1:8). Heaven will last forever and there is no reason to believe that hell will be temporal. Another thing about the temporal aspect of hell is that the Bible does not support in any way the idea of a purgatory. We die and then we are judged (John 8:21; Hebrews 9:27).

Another problem with this view is that it presupposes that salvation can come from something other than Christ. It presupposes that a certain amount of punishment will drive a person to repentance and then to salvation. However, this view implies that the death of Christ is not sufficient for all and that for the most part that the redemptive act of Jesus Christ was unnecessary. I can hear the human spirit now reasoning as a child so to speak. It'll say, "I'll take a beating later so that I can do what I want now." Therefore, hell cannot be a temporal place, because such is directly contrary to the foundation of Christianity in that Jesus Christ died for all and that all we have to do is believe in Him.

One must realize that punishment does not soften the heart else we would not have repeat criminals and we probably would have far less crime since the punishment of others and even of self would deter one from future crimes. Also consider that the grace and light of God does not exist in hell. Hell is a place that is devoid of the presence of God since God cannot look upon sin (Habakkuk 1:13). There is therefore nothing in hell that would draw a soul to God. There is no grace, no light, nothing. There is nothing to rehabilitate a lost soul in hell.

Sometimes the Bible uses the term, "gnashing of teeth." See Matthew 8:12, 13:42 for example. The word "gnash" means to grind the teeth as in hatred. This implies that those who are in hell do not move towards a heart of repentance. Instead, they become more defiant in their unrighteous state. Again, hell will not bring rehabilitation.

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

Hell is Eternal

An eternal God requires an eternal hell. It's that simple. I said previously that the Bible does not support the idea of a temporal hell. Therefore, if hell is not temporal then it must be eternal. There is no getting out of hell. One might argue that an eternal hell is unjustified for temporal sins. First consider that a temporal act is sufficient for eternal sins. That is, the redemptive act of Jesus Christ, which occurred over a definite period of time, was sufficient to redeem us from an eternal hell. So it would seem reasonable that temporal sins require an eternal hell.


I would like to point out that God is not merely punishing people for the things that they do. In other words, God is not condemning people to hell because the stole a car or whatever. People go to hell because they have rejected the Lord and savior Jesus Christ. People go to hell because they refused life and desired the darkness that they were already living in. People go to hell because they chose an eternity of separation from the light.

 

[Tim]

Here is an explanation that puts into words exactly my views. Source

Pay close attention to where it explains that the body and soul are tormented in a lake of fire for all of eternity.

Sheol (Hebrew) - It is the non-permanent place or temporary address of the disembodied souls of dead. It is not the grave or sepulcher, nor is it the eternal location of the souls of the dead. It is the same as the Greek word "Hades", which we will look at in a moment. Prior to Jesus Christ's resurrection, both the souls of the evil and the righteous went there after death. It is translated "grave" 31 times, "hell" 31 times, and "pit" 3 times in King James Version (KJV) of the Bible.
Sheol (or Hades) has two separate halves. One side was and is reserved for the torment of the evil, while the other side, called "Abraham's Bosom" in Luke 16:22, was for the comfort of the righteous. There is and impassable canyon, or gulf, between the two halves. When Christ was resurrected, he led the righteous out of Sheol to Heaven. Many (probably not all) of the Old Testament saints were resurrected into their immortal bodies at that time (Matthew 27:51-53). Since then, the souls of all of the saved people go directly to Heaven when their bodies die. The lost people still go to Sheol and join the lost people of the Old Testament in torment on one side of the canyon when they die. The other side of Sheol formerly known as Abraham's Bosom has been vacant since Jesus Christ led the saints within it to heaven after His resurrection.
Sheol (or Hades) is described as being "in the heart of the earth" in Matthew 12:40 and is said to be below, down, or beneath in passages such as Deuteronomy 32:22, Isaiah 14:9, and Ezekiel 31:16.
The English word "Hell" refers to a place of eternal punishment for the wicked. Its meaning does not distinguish between the two separate places for the wicked to be punished, one temporary for the soul, and the other, the Lake of Fire, permanent for the soul and body. Nor does its meaning include the place of comfort for saints prior to Christ's resurrection. In normal English conversation, "Hell" is used only in the negative sense, with no saved people ever going there.
This caused some inadequate translations of "Sheol" and "Hades". Often these words are translated "Hell", which, as just explained, is rather ambiguous and non-descriptive. In many other places "Sheol" and "Hades" are translated as "grave", but the grave is only the place for the body after death, not the place for the soul. This confusion often occurs when the verse refers to a righteous man going to "Sheol", such as men like Jacob, Joseph, (Genesis 37:35) and Job (Job 14:13). Of course, these men did not go to a place of torment, but to the comfort side of Sheol (Hades), called Abraham's Bosom.
Hades (Greek) - It is identical to Sheol (Hebrew). It is the non-permanent place or temporary address of the disembodied souls of dead. It is not the grave or sepulcher, nor is it the eternal location of the souls of the dead. Hades is translated "Hell" 10 times and "grave" once by KJV. It is the place for the soul, not the body.

Gehenna (Greek, but originally from a Hebrew name) - translated "Hell" all 12 times in KJV It is the permanent place for destruction of the "... soul and body ..." (Matthew 10:28). It is a place of "... fire that never shall be quenched" (Mark 9:45). In most of the references, it is clear from the context that those who enter Gehenna, do so in their bodies, not merely as bodiless souls. For this to happen, it must occur after the resurrection of the damned at the great white throne of judgment. Therefore, Gehenna is the Lake of Fire described in Revelation 19 and 20. It is presently uninhabited, but the Beast and the False Prophet will be cast into it at the end of the tribulation (Revelation 19:20). One thousand years later, Satan will be cast into it (Revelation 20:10) and will be followed shortly by the lost people of all previous time periods (Revelation 20:15). They will all enter Gehenna together, in there resurrected bodies, where they will remain in torment for all eternity.
This Revelation 20 passage makes it clear that Hades and the Lake of Fire are not the same place. At the great white throne judgement at the end of the 1000 year kingdom, those in Hades will be removed from Hades, as Revelation 20:13 says, "... hell (Hades) delivered up the dead which were in them ...." And those which were in Hades will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14-15). Note that the timing of this relocation of the lost occurs just before where Revelation 21:1 says, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Hades, which will be emptied in Revelation 20:13, apparently will them be destroyed, since it is in the heart of the first earth.

 

[Diggin Deep]

How can a just god condemn a soul for all of eternity for such a short lifetime on this planet? This may not seem like such a hard question to answer until you start to wrap your mind around what an eternity actually means. To say that I will burn in a lake of fire and suffer eternally for a what I did in my life which is not even a blink of an eye when you are talking about eternity, tells me that there is no god. There is no one that is that cruel, there can't be.

Hell is Symbolic

This view, which was the view of an article that I read, suggests that Hell is not a real place. Furthermore, this view holds that there is no hell. If the hell presented in the Bible is symbolic then there is no hell else the Bible would point to the real thing. The Bible shows that hell does exist and is a real place. Anything contrary to this goes directly against the revealed word of God.

Another aspect of this view of hell is that it implies that the Bible is not reliable and that the Bible can be interpreted by allegorical means. However, this is not true. The Bible can reliably be interpreted by the grammatical and historical analysis of the Scriptures. Introducing other forms of interpretation such as allegory only forces one to believe what the Bible does not say.

If the reference to hell in the Bible is symbolic then all references made by Jesus Christ were merely symbols. However, though Jesus did speak in parables, He did refer to a real hell, which you can determine by examining the scriptures that were given earlier.

 

[Diggin Deep]

Here is an explanation that puts into words exactly my views. Source

Pay close attention to where it explains that the body and soul are tormented in a lake of fire for all of eternity.

I'm familiar with what you referred to.

First, the word "Hell" is used to denote the place of eternal punishment for the unrighteous souls.We are all probably familiar with that general idea of hell. Let's get a little more specific from a biblical context. The word "hell" also used to translate the Hebrew word "Sheol" and the Greek word "Hades," which mean the abode or place of the dead. Hell is also used to translate the Greek Tartaroo, which means to cast down into hell (or the deepest abyss). See 2 Peter 2:4 (this is the only time this word Tartaroo appears in the Bible).

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The word "hell" here is translated from the Greek word geenna (pronounced gheh' -en -nah). It is derived from the Hebrew gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), which literally was the valley of the son of Hinnom. It later was used to identify a valley west and south of Jerusalem and figuratively was the place or state of everlasting punishment.

Gehenna was the place where the Caananites worshipped Baal. Also the worship of the idol god Molech by child sacrifices took place in this valley. There was a continual fire burning for the worship of this god.See 2 Chronicles 28:3, 33:6). Eventually King Josiah put an end to these practices (2 Kings 23:10).

During Jesus' time, Gehenna was used as a garbage dump. It included all of the filth and refuse from the city as well as the dead bodies of animals and executed criminals. The stench was great. Usually the winds blew in such a way that the stench blew away from the city. However, when the winds shifted, the stench could be smelled within the city. Fires were usually burning so as to burn up the refuse. Maggots also did their work on the dead flesh and garbage. From this we get the reference of the word hell, which identified a place of horrible punishment.

 

[itsmeJonB]

Where'd you find that? I wrote that in secone grade