The Future of the Conservatives Movement in the Republican Party?

[Meirionnydd]

Exactly... it's such a simple concept.

Article 35. Health care

Everyone has the right of access to preventive health care and the right to benefit from medical treatment under the conditions established by national laws and practices. A high level of human health protection shall be ensured in the definition and implementation of all Union policies and activities.

Article 25.

Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

Oh yeah, it's such a simple concept.

 

[Accountable]

The "rights" you cite are in no way rights at all, but privileges offered to everybody so long as funds and resources are available.

 

[Minor Axis]

The "rights" you cite are in no way rights at all, but privileges offered to everybody so long as funds and resources are available.

Just an opinion.

 

[Accountable]

Just an opinion.

Do you stick your fingers in your ears when you type that?

 

[catisland]

So all of these various quotes are saying, basically, that EVERYONE has a RIGHT to EVERYONE ELSE'S MONEY via taxes to provide THEM with healthcare, whether they pay into the system or not, or whether they work or not. Right??

The New Universal Entitlement Mindset. We are so screwed.

 

[nova]

Gotta love that rationale. No philosophical basis and no attempt to integrate it with other fundamental rights.

Just, I have a right to your labor and the fruits of your labor, your liberty and property rights be damned, because the UN and EU say so....

What a right really is and the extent of rights...

 

[Tim]

So all of these various quotes are saying, basically, that EVERYONE has a RIGHT to EVERYONE ELSE'S MONEY via taxes to provide THEM with healthcare, whether they pay into the system or not, or whether they work or not. Right??

The New Universal Entitlement Mindset. We are so screwed.

This concept is in no way new. It has been around for thousands of years.

So what do you think about the concept of denying health care to those who are unable to pay? Should we demand payment up front before we treat anyone so the rest of us won't be stuck with their bills?

 

[retro]

Oh yeah, it's such a simple concept.

it is... did you not actually read what you quoted there? Whether you want to admit it or not, everyone does have access to medical treatment. Most emergency rooms are required to treat patients who present with serious conditions, and then to work out payment arrangements with the patients after treatment has been rendered. As long as they make some type of payment every month, the hospital cannot send them to collections for the past-due balance. There are low-cost or free clinics that accept cash payments for preventative care, or there are private physicians out there that accept cash payments as well. So the conditions set forth in both the EU and UN Charters are in fact covered here in the United States. If you don't have enough money to pay for services, you more than likely qualify for Medicaid, in which case you have insurance through your state (MediCal here in California).

A system being socialistic doesn't make it better.... it makes it different, and even the people involved with the socialist systems (like Canada) are saying that they need to open it up to private party competition like we have here in the US.

 

[retro]

This concept is in no way new. It has been around for thousands of years.

So what do you think about the concept of denying health care to those who are unable to pay? Should we demand payment up front before we treat anyone so the rest of us won't be stuck with their bills?

I just made mention of this in my other post... but as long as you make a payment on your medical bills every month, you cannot be sent to collections for medical services. Most emergency rooms are required to see patients who present with emergencies and arrange payment plans with them after services have been rendered. Now, physicians will refuse to treat patients that they've treated previously and who have refused to pay for said services... but that's no different than say, the power company shutting your electricity off for non-payment.

 

[Meirionnydd]

it is... did you not actually read what you quoted there? Whether you want to admit it or not, everyone does have access to medical treatment. Most emergency rooms are required to treat patients who present with serious conditions, and then to work out payment arrangements with the patients after treatment has been rendered. As long as they make some type of payment every month, the hospital cannot send them to collections for the past-due balance. There are low-cost or free clinics that accept cash payments for preventative care, or there are private physicians out there that accept cash payments as well. So the conditions set forth in both the EU and UN Charters are in fact covered here in the United States. If you don't have enough money to pay for services, you more than likely qualify for Medicaid, in which case you have insurance through your state (MediCal here in California).

I never said that those provisions weren't covered in the United States, i'm already aware of the fact that hospitals and clinics need to render treatment to a patient, regardless of ability to pay.

The point is, regardless of that fact, the 60 million Americans who are either uninsured or under-insured, are more likely to forgo medical treatment because they simply aren't able to pay.

As a result, around 16,000-20,000 Americans die each year because they can't proper access to medical treatment.

A system being socialistic doesn't make it better.... it makes it different, and even the people involved with the socialist systems (like Canada) are saying that they need to open it up to private party competition like we have here in the US.

So?...

Do you expect that 100% of people living in a country with a universal health care system are going to agree with it? Obviously not, there's also a chorus of doctors in the United States that argue that it should move to a universal system.

It's not a coincidence that the best healthcare systems in the world are 'socialist' either.

 

[Meirionnydd]

So all of these various quotes are saying, basically, that EVERYONE has a RIGHT to EVERYONE ELSE'S MONEY via taxes to provide THEM with healthcare, whether they pay into the system or not, or whether they work or not. Right??

The New Universal Entitlement Mindset. We are so screwed.

Looks like social atomization is alive and well here.

And that's basically the premise of it all, that's really how a society works. Like how I call the Police after i've been robbed.

 

[nova]

It's not a coincidence that the best healthcare systems in the world are 'socialist' either.

I'd love to see you try and prove that assertion...

 

[nova]

It's not a coincidence that the best healthcare systems in the world are 'socialist' either.

I'd love to see you try and prove that assertion...

 

[Minor Axis]

The point is, regardless of that fact, the 60 million Americans who are either uninsured or under-insured, are more likely to forgo medical treatment because they simply aren't able to pay.

As a result, around 16,000-20,000 Americans die each year because they can't proper access to medical treatment.

I think your argument is falling on deaf ears. :nod:

Do you expect that 100% of people living in a country with a universal health care system are going to agree with it? Obviously not, there's also a chorus of doctors in the United States that argue that it should move to a universal system.

It's not a coincidence that the best healthcare systems in the world are 'socialist' either.

I think I am preaching to the choir , but part of the problem is large corporations who are looking for large profits. Health costs in the U.S. have been skyrocketing for at least the last 20-30 years, maybe more? Ironically, if the system is not reformed, a substantial portion of the comfy people who are now covered, screaming about socialized medicine might not have it or might not be able to afford it in the future.