The Future of the Conservatives Movement in the Republican Party?

[Minor Axis]

Newsweek: Beyond The Palin- Why the GOP is Falling Out of Love with Gunb-Toting, Churchgoing Working-Class Americans by Rick Perlstein.

I've said all along the conservative movement in this country only cares about the working class as a means of supporting a system that benefits the few (them) at the cost of the many.

After Barack Obama's victory, you heard thinkers like author and federal judge Richard Posner lamenting on his blog that "the face of the Republican Party had become Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber. Conservative intellectuals had no party."

Author and former Bush speechwriter David Frum recently made the argument, on the occasion of the split between Palin's single 18-year-old daughter, Bristol, and the 19-year-old father of her child, that "it is marriage that creates culturally conservative voters—and young downscale Americans are not getting married. When they do marry, they do not stay married: While divorce rates among the college educated have declined sharply since the 1970s, divorce rates among high school graduates remain ominously high." In a much-discussed blog post titled "Bristol's Myth," Frum cited statistics showing that white women without a college degree are far more likely to have a child out of wedlock than their -college-educated counterparts. He concluded that "the socially conservative downscale voter is increasingly becoming a mirage—and a Republican politics based on that mirage will only lead us deeper into the desert."

Why the change? For one thing, populism has never been an entirely comfortable fit for elite conservatives. Majorities of middle-class Americans can be persuaded to support tax cuts for the rich—even repeal of the estate tax—out of an optimism that they may eventually become rich themselves. But they are also susceptible to appeals like the one George Wallace made in the recession year of 1976. He built his campaign on both hellfire-and-brimstone moralism and a pledge of soak-the-rich tax policies. The elite conservative fears that the temptation to woo working-class voters will, you know, shade into policies that actually advantage the working class. That fear surfaced recently when Rush Limbaugh—whom Frum himself has singled out as one of the dangerous populists dragging the Republicans down—dismissed those who criticized the AIG bonuses as "peasants with their pitchforks" who must be silenced for the sake of conservative orthodoxy. But it's harder to persuade the economically less fortunate to respect conservative orthodoxy during a recession. That's starting to make some conservatives nervous.

At least in the past, those who wished to represent their movement (conservatism) as cosmopolitan and urbane could simply point to William F. Buckley as the right's most prominent spokesman. Now Buckley is gone, and the most prominent spokesmen—the Limbaughs and O'Reillys and Becks—can be heard mouthing attitudes once confined to the violent fringe.

 

[MoonOwl]

I've said all along the conservative movement in this country only cares about the working class as a means of supporting a system that benefits the few (them) at the cost of the many.

I tend to agree. But, that can also be said about the Dems. Politicians on both sides of the aisle have become adept at getting folks to vote against their own interests w/out them even realizing it. It sucks.

hehehehehehehehe.... I get two :horse posts today cuz I didn't post any yesterday

 

[Alien Allen]

Hope you liberals enjoyed the ride because Rasmussen just posted the reps being supported over the dems by the same amount the dems were supported over the reps last November.

I kept telling ya this is not a liberal country. We don't need the religious right in charge but clearly the socialist statist plans the democrat uber liberals promote is not what the majority want.

Now for the demoniization. The bull shit is already flying about the protests at the health care town hall meetings. When in doubt go ahead and use the same old bull shit excuses for why you can not get support. Come up with a Swiss style health care and I don't believe there would near the uproar. Sorry libs but your time is fast running out. I never would have dreamed you all could self destruct so quickly.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Hope you liberals enjoyed the ride because Rasmussen just posted the reps being supported over the dems by the same amount the dems were supported over the reps last November.

I kept telling ya this is not a liberal country. We don't need the religious right in charge but clearly the socialist statist plans the democrat uber liberals promote is not what the majority want.

AHH, SOCIALISM. RUN.

Social equality will destroy the fabric of society!

Now for the demoniization. The bull shit is already flying about the protests at the health care town hall meetings. When in doubt go ahead and use the same old bull shit excuses for why you can not get support.

At a recent 'Town-Hall' meeting, someone told their congressman 'Keep your government hands off my Medicare!', from that, you might think that people opposing health care reform aren't very smart.

 

[Accountable]

The best thing for the USA would be for one half of the siamese twin to destroy the other. Then maybe we can stop this trainwreck and reember that liberty used to be and still should be the cornerstone of our republic.

 

[Docc_eee_aww]

The biggest probelm with the neo- conservative movement is, true, it is represented by shallow voices like Coulter, Limbaugh, Palin, but they are really also good at creating little quips like "Obamanomics", but nothing in the form of well thought out idea and processes. Come back with solutions that lower health insurance costs for businesses...as opposed to calling it socialism (which really isn't all that bad sometimes -- do they drive on their own roads? or do they like the idea of pooling resouces to obtain financial benefit for the whole (again, a socilistic economic policy). Name one, just one (doesn't even have to be good), idea that Coulter, Limbaugh, or Palin thought of.

 

[Tangerine]

Well, he ain't Limbaugh or Coulter, be he IS a voice from the right that for as long as I can remember has been making great sense in a world were most actual politicians cannot. You want a GOOD idea for health care? Here it is:

Charles Krauthammer : Health Care Reform: A Better Plan - Townhall.com

 

[Accountable]

If all these programs are so great and popular, why aren't taxes voluntary?

 

[Tim]

Well, he ain't Limbaugh or Coulter, be he IS a voice from the right that for as long as I can remember has been making great sense in a world were most actual politicians cannot. You want a GOOD idea for health care? Here it is:

Charles Krauthammer : Health Care Reform: A Better Plan - Townhall.com

According to the article it's a 3 step process...

1. Over haul medical malpractice... This is something I agree with.
2. Encourage businesses to get rid of coverage by taxing them on it and giving the check to the people who have to go out and get their own insurance... This is a disaster waiting to happen. It will increase the costs of health care coverage for the worker since the employers will NOT give back the full cost in the form of wages. It will only serve another way for employers to make a buck of it's workers.
3. Making it possible to get insurance across state lines to encourage competition... This was one of the most idiotic suggestions McCain made. You CANNOT buy your insurance anywhere and expect to get any form of coverage... let me explain, if you know anything about the way insurance companies work, then you will realize that they operate a network system. That is they have deals with local hospitals and doctors that they will send their customers to thei business for treatment. This is why you have a list of doctors to choose from. If I wanted to buy into a network 3 states away, there would be no deal/savings for the insurance company since I would need to see doctors out of network. And there is no possibility to expand networks over hundreds of miles...
McCain needs to understand how insurance companies work with doctors and hospitals before making suggestions so idiotic.

 

[ssl]

The biggest probelm with the neo- conservative movement is, true, it is represented by shallow voices like Coulter, Limbaugh, Palin, but they are really also good at creating little quips like "Obamanomics", but nothing in the form of well thought out idea and processes. Come back with solutions that lower health insurance costs for businesses...as opposed to calling it socialism (which really isn't all that bad sometimes -- do they drive on their own roads? or do they like the idea of pooling resouces to obtain financial benefit for the whole (again, a socilistic economic policy). Name one, just one (doesn't even have to be good), idea that Coulter, Limbaugh, or Palin thought of.

The biggest problem is trying to blame those in charge for not coming up with a solution.

People need to make their own choices, not allow the government to make the choices for them.

 

[Minor Axis]

Sure fellows, be hopeful about the Republican's big come back. Looks like Obama's approval ratings have fallen but Republican ratings are at all time lows. Even though this link comes from a Democratic source it quotes 4 polls showing basically that the only ones still looking to Republicans for solutions is the party base.

Republican Approval Ratings at an all time low.

As NBC reported, "Buried inside all three polls is this finding: Opinions about the Republican Party are at an all-time low. What's more, according to the ABC/WashPo survey, Americans trust Obama more than congressional Republicans on health care (55%-27%), the economy (55%-31%), the deficit (56%-30%), and combating terrorism (55%-34%). To put it simply, the GOP's take on Obama's poll numbers is a lot like the owner of a 1987 Buick pointing out the dents and potential engine trouble of a 2008 BMW sedan."

 

[MoonOwl]

Maybe next time the voters will embrace Ron Paul's message? DOUBT IT!

 

[Alien Allen]

According to the article it's a 3 step process...

1. Over haul medical malpractice... This is something I agree with.
2. Encourage businesses to get rid of coverage by taxing them on it and giving the check to the people who have to go out and get their own insurance... This is a disaster waiting to happen. It will increase the costs of health care coverage for the worker since the employers will NOT give back the full cost in the form of wages. It will only serve another way for employers to make a buck of it's workers.
3. Making it possible to get insurance across state lines to encourage competition... This was one of the most idiotic suggestions McCain made. You CANNOT buy your insurance anywhere and expect to get any form of coverage... let me explain, if you know anything about the way insurance companies work, then you will realize that they operate a network system. That is they have deals with local hospitals and doctors that they will send their customers to thei business for treatment. This is why you have a list of doctors to choose from. If I wanted to buy into a network 3 states away, there would be no deal/savings for the insurance company since I would need to see doctors out of network. And there is no possibility to expand networks over hundreds of miles...
McCain needs to understand how insurance companies work with doctors and hospitals before making suggestions so idiotic.

I disagree on points 2 and 3.

The Swiss have a system where everybody must buy their own insurance. It is the best of the National Health Care plans in Europe. It allows individuals to buy the coverage they desire and can afford. It provides for much more competition. There is no reason that if there is such a national mandate that insurance companies from out of state would not work.

 

[Accountable]

Sure fellows, be hopeful about the Republican's big come back. Looks like Obama's approval ratings have fallen but Republican ratings are at all time lows. Even though this link comes from a Democratic source it quotes 4 polls showing basically that the only ones still looking to Republicans for solutions is the party base.

Republican Approval Ratings at an all time low.

Do you think the two-party system as we have it in the US is good or bad for the country?

 

[PoopaSwoof]

Do you think the two-party system as we have it in the US is good or bad for the country?

I really hope the Green and Libertarian parties gain a foothold.
This two party system is becoming a one party system(corporate) with different window dressing.
I want a greater illusion of choice.

 

[Minor Axis]

Do you think the two-party system as we have it in the US is good or bad for the country?

Tricky question as technically we are not a two party system, we are a 4-8, whatever system. It's just that two parties dominate the voters attention. As I have mentioned, I do support "instant runoff voting" a system that lets you pick you top 2 or 3 preferences for a particular position. That might help.

Bottom line, I really don't have a good answer for your question. In the past I voted for an independent, Jesse Ventura because the Republican and Democratic candidates were unpalatable to me. I also would have considered Ross Perot if he had the temperament to see a race through. And I was seriously looking at Ron Paul.

 

[Accountable]

The Republican and Democrat Parties coordinate their efforts to limit and eliminate any other parties, just as the corporations that run them limit and eliminate their competition. They've set up legislation that makes it extremely difficult - damn near impossible - for any other party but them to gain any exposure. It's a Trust.


Didn't we decide something like 100 years ago that trusts and monopolies were bad for America?

I like your idea of a "ranked" vote I guess you'd call it.

 

[Alien Allen]

Minor most of what you post seems to be the opposite of what Ron Paul was for. Could you give me a reason why you almost supported him please.

 

[Accountable]

How'd I miss that?

 

[Meirionnydd]

The Republican and Democrat Parties coordinate their efforts to limit and eliminate any other parties, just as the corporations that run them limit and eliminate their competition. They've set up legislation that makes it extremely difficult - damn near impossible - for any other party but them to gain any exposure. It's a Trust.


Didn't we decide something like 100 years ago that trusts and monopolies were bad for America?

I like your idea of a "ranked" vote I guess you'd call it.

I think Minor Axis is referring to a Preferential voting system?

We have it here in Australia, it's pretty popular. To win, a candidate has to win 50% + 1 of votes cast. It's slightly more complicated than that, but it does help minor parties participate in the political process. If a major party candidate doesn't win 50% of the votes, other candidates can give them their preferences to help them win. This has resulted in concessions between parties in many cases.

Another system of voting to help minor parties is proportional voting. This means if a party wins a percentage of votes, they are automatically guaranteed a seat. This system is in place in New Zealand, Israel, and upper chamber of parliament in Australia (The Senate). Although i'm not a proponent of that kind of system. For some reason a right-wing Christian conservative whacko got a senate seat here..