Teachers And Pay Raises

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Accountable

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'K.

I just thought to set the record straight. I'm not an expert on Ol' Sam, but the corporation didn't go global (aka third world) until after he died.
 
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Johnfromokc

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John made the comment about his kids

I think it is a reasonable assumption if Sam were still alive John would be railing about Waltons wealth

Walmart would have continued to grow under Sam. He was a pretty savy ergo via liberal logic ruthless businessman

And as I reasonably assumed, Allen made a silly statement about me. I very much admired Sam Walton and still have my copy of his autobiography. He started his retail business out of the back of his station wagon. If Sam had lived, Wal-Mart would not likely be the distribution wing of the Peoples Republic of China that it is today:

384415_287558201281990_255612211143256_755125_700057443_n.jpg


'K.

I just thought to set the record straight. I'm not an expert on Ol' Sam, but the corporation didn't go global (aka third world) until after he died.

Exactly.
 

MainerMikeBrown

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Teachers in my high school were too busy yapping about how they should be getting pay raises to notice that many of us students were going through a tough time in part because of bullying. Although teachers were limited to what they could do to punish kids who acted out of line, they certainly could've done more to lower the rate of bullying which occured.

So I hope they're happy and got their pay raises!
 

Accountable

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We have anti-bullying posters everywhere in our school. It's like everywhere I look I see STOP BULLYING! SAY NO TO BULLYING! REPORT BULLYING! It's getting to the point that I can't walk the halls without being pressured from every side to grab somebody, anybody, and throw them to the ground to prevent them from bullying anyone ... no matter if they were actually bullying someone or not. I feel like I'll do anything just to make the anti-bullying bullying stop!!
yahoo_cry.gif
 

MainerMikeBrown

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If the teachers in my small, rural town wanted better paying jobs in their field, they should've either accepted better paying teaching positions in wealthier communities or worked in my high school for a few years and then move on to better paying opportunities as teachers. Instead, most of my teachers worked in my school for years.

What did they expect from an economically poor community anyway? And do they think they're the only people who worked hard despite modest incomes?
 

Boomerang

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If the teachers in my small, rural town wanted better paying jobs in their field, they should've either accepted better paying teaching positions in wealthier communities or worked in my high school for a few years and then move on to better paying opportunities as teachers. Instead, most of my teachers worked in my school for years.

What did they expect from an economically poor community anyway? And do they think they're the only people who worked hard despite modest incomes?

What are these better paying opportunities as teachers you are referring to? Or are you just meaning they should move to wealthier communities?

The thing I don't understand is where are these wealthy communities that pay teachers so well? In middle Tennessee the pay differs at most 5 grand a year in different counties. That really isn't that big of a difference. I work in one of the wealthier counties but am not paid enough to be able to afford to live in it, so I travel an hour each way.

Why do you have such resentment for teachers? I really want to know. You haven't been able to say anything good about them without tying it to something absolutely terrible. I just hate that whole "I know a few teachers who did this, so they all do this" mentality. It is pretty narrow-minded, in my opinion.
 

darkcgi

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the pay is low for all professions where I live and most of the places in this area have such a low cost of living its worth it
just drives you nuts thinking you could be making more in another state but you dont want to leave because cost is low
 

Accountable

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Why do you have such resentment for teachers? I really want to know. You haven't been able to say anything good about them without tying it to something absolutely terrible. I just hate that whole "I know a few teachers who did this, so they all do this" mentality. It is pretty narrow-minded, in my opinion.
It's because he was bullied in school and those greedy bastard teachers let it happen, probably while they were sitting back imagining how they would spend their thousands.

Okay, Mike, I want you to look in the mirror and repeat after Stuart:

[video=youtube;-DIETlxquzY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DIETlxquzY[/video]
 

Alien Allen

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I knew there was more to this than meets the eye. No question they have a lot of wealth on paper. Nobody would deny that they also have a lot of liquid assets. But....as always numbers are a tricky thing.

From Forbes today.....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/six-waltons-more-wealth-bottom-172819426.html


Six Waltons Have More Wealth Than the Bottom 30% of Americans



Different people will take this different ways, but Jeffrey Goldberg tells us that six members of the Walton family (the original owners of Walmart) have more wealth than the bottom 30% of Americans. Here's where he says it:

In 2007, according to the labor economist Sylvia Allegretto, the six Walton family members on the Forbes 400 had a net worth equal to the bottom 30 percent of all Americans.


And given that he quotes us here at Forbes on the point, he's almost certainly right.
The question is, what are we to make of this point? I think we all know what Mr. Goldberg wants us to make of it, it's a telling indictment of American wealth inequality, the world's going to the dogs and something must be done about rising inequality.

The Waltons are now collectively worth about $93 billion, according to Forbes.
Well, yes, but. Total U.S. household wealth is in the $50 trillion (yes, trillion) to $70 trillion range. The range is depending on whether you want to take before the housing crash or in the middle of it. So the statement is that these Waltons have, between the family, 0.13% of US wealth. Which, for the people who inherited the world's largest (well, certainly the country's) and most successful retailer doesn't sound like a particularly terrible concentration of wealth. It's certainly less than John D. Rockefeller had all by his lonesome when he was in his pomp.



But I think it's possible that the comment is more revealing about Mr. Goldberg really, for as Felix Salmon points out, Mr. Goldberg himself has more wealth than the bottom 25% of Americans.


This sounds outrageous, until you stop for a second and take note of the fact that Jeffrey Goldberg, individually, has a net worth greater than the bottom 25% of all Americans.



In fact, given that I have equity in my home and no other debt than mortgage, I have, as is highly likely do all readers of these pages, more wealth than the bottom 25% of Americans added together. For as Felix points us to:
In 2009, roughly 1 in 4 (24.8%) of American households had zero or negative net worth, up from 18.6% in 2007, and 37.1% of households had net worth of less than $12,000, up from 30.0% in 2007.



Wealth is always more unequally distributed than income. By the way, it isn't even true that all of those households with zero or negative wealth are what we would call poor either. It's entirely possible to have no net assets while having a good income, even a high income. All you need to have is debts higher than your assets: something that will almost certainly be true of anyone with student debt and fresh out of college for example. Fresh out of grad school you might well have $100,000, $200,000 of debt, hey, possibly even from medical school you might be carrying $500,000. None of us are actually going to weep all that hard for you though, not you with that associates job at a Wall Street law firm on $100,000 or more, not a newly qualified doctor on hundreds of thousands a year.


I certainly don't mean that all those with negative net household value are in that situation: There are an awful lot of people who are "properly" poor in the way that we all usually understand it.


But this comparison of wealth doesn't show us quite what Mr. Goldberg thinks it does. If you've got no debts and have $10 in your pocket you have more wealth than 25% of Americans. More than that 25% of Americans have collectively that is.
That a family who has inherited the majority of one of the leading global retailers have more wealth than the bottom 30% of Americans, when compared with how high up the tree a single ten dollar bill gets you, is pretty much worthy of a heartfelt

"Meh."
 

Johnfromokc

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I knew there was more to this than meets the eye. No question they have a lot of wealth on paper. Nobody would deny that they also have a lot of liquid assets. But....as always numbers are a tricky thing.

From Forbes today.....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/six-waltons-more-wealth-bottom-172819426.html


I read that article moments before you posted it - So what's your point?

That fact remains the Walton brats are fucking us all with their collective pressure on manufacturers to provide them with the lowest prices - even if that means relocating a factory to China.

They fucked most of their employees out of health care and pay slave wages. Wal-Mart has probably harmed this nations economy and the working class worse than any other single factor.

Sam Walton, while he was alive was proud of the fact that his employees were well paid. There were many stories of Wal-Mart truck drivers and others who earned millions with their employee stock options. No more.

Welcome to the wonderful world of fucking over the midle class while the top 1% get richer and richer, hoarding more and more wealth. Those inheritance rich motherfuckers could easily afford to pay living wages and provide health care for their employees - but they choose to hoard as much as possible for themselves while spending millions on lobbyists to pay even less tax as a percentage of their income than their mid level managers and employees.

I'm sure you'll come out and defend the Divine Right of Kings to enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of society - so lets hear it.
 

Alien Allen

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My only point is that there are a lot of things that get distorted. And people buy into it.

Did you really buy that 30% bullshit when it was first cited?

Tis offtopic but one of my employees was talking about how you can not tell who to believe. He mentioned about hearing that all the doomsayers saying SS was gonna collapse were wrong. He even said the former head of SS claimed that SS was nothing to worry about and which side should you believe.

I got a pretty good nose for using the smell test most of the time. I question everything. You may not see it but I do. Just because I called bullshit on the Walton story does not mean I think this country has nothing to worry about as far as the wealth gap. I think the bigger concern is the big whigs in govt and how they manipulate things. So what if Walmart buys so much stuff from China. Simple don't support Walmart. You want to bring down the Waltons in doing so I got no beef. That is capitalism. I would prefer though we concentrate on taking down the system that makes being in office profitable to the point it has corrupted it.
 

Johnfromokc

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My only point is that there are a lot of things that get distorted. And people buy into it.

Did you really buy that 30% bullshit when it was first cited?

It is true that the Waltons have more wealth than the bottom 30% of Americans. Your article actually corroborate's that fact. Surely you did not misconstrue that article to refute the claim???

Tis offtopic but one of my employees was talking about how you can not tell who to believe. He mentioned about hearing that all the doomsayers saying SS was gonna collapse were wrong. He even said the former head of SS claimed that SS was nothing to worry about and which side should you believe.

The hyperbole concerning the alleged imminent demise of SS most often comes from right wing alarmists who would like nothing more than to see SS privatized into the "Capitalist" system they religiously believe to be more honest than government. I've pointed this out in other threads.

I got a pretty good nose for using the smell test most of the time. I question everything. You may not see it but I do. Just because I called bullshit on the Walton story does not mean I think this country has nothing to worry about as far as the wealth gap.

That was a mistaken bullshit call on the Waltons. It was actually an understatement seeing how the bottom 50% of Americans have 2.5% of the wealth.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#half-of-america-has-25-of-the-wealth-2

Half of America has 2.5% of the wealth

half-of-america-has-25-of-the-wealth.gif

I think the bigger concern is the big whigs in govt and how they manipulate things. So what if Walmart buys so much stuff from China. Simple don't support Walmart. You want to bring down the Waltons in doing so I got no beef. That is capitalism. I would prefer though we concentrate on taking down the system that makes being in office profitable to the point it has corrupted it.


That is Capitalism? No - what Wal-Mart does is not Capitalism. They come into communities, bribe and bully local politicians into taking land by imminent domain and selling it to the Wal-Mart oligarchy. They then use community resources like water, power and sewage TAX FREE in many cases. Next, they drop prices to the point local small retailers cannot compete with and thereby drive them out of business. They become one of the primary employers in the community and the employees are forced to shop there as well as work there. Just like the good old pre-union American era of the company store. Happy days are here again!...........for the neo-Capitalist exploiters.

That's the entire point- people like the Waltons are the cause of the problem - along with the Wall Street machine that owns our government and their right wing apologists. It's fucking human greed pure and simple. And why middle class Americans and small business owners support politicians who support legislation that enables these neo-capitalist looters is the mystery of the century.


 

MainerMikeBrown

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If teachers really cared about helping youths with their education and in life, they wouldn't be complaining about pay so much. The lack of pay would be worth it to them.
 

HK

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If teachers really cared about helping youths with their education and in life, they wouldn't be complaining about pay so much. The lack of pay would be worth it to them.


Bullshit. Doing a job that's worthwhile doesn't mean it's magically okay for your own quality of life to suffer. Teachers don't live in schools, and their jobs aren't their entire world - they have homes and families to look after, just like everyone else.

Job satisfaction doesn't put food on the table.
 

MainerMikeBrown

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When teachers think too much about pay raises, it takes up time that they could be thinking about the kids they're supposed to be helping instead.
 

Red Eft

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When teachers think too much about pay raises, it takes up time that they could be thinking about the kids they're supposed to be helping instead.

So the point you are trying to get across is that a preponderance of teachers complain about what they get paid and..............? What do you propose should be done? Should we ferret out who these nefarious creatures are and fire them?
 
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