stop using the word 'islamists'!!!!!!

[All Else Failed]

Never heard anyone call patriotism stupid before. Interesting.

Well, I'm gonna argue that. When is the last time our nation was expansionist? WWII. Gave Europe/Japan back. Korea, gave it back. Panama? Don't own it either. Grenada? Again, not ours. Somalia, also not an American territory. Kuwait isn't ours either. Where's this expansion at?

I didn't call patriotism stupid. I just think its nonsensical.






Expansionism isn't just what land you own, its the ideas and power you use to expand your agenda on other people.

 

[dt3]

I didn't call patriotism stupid. I just think its nonsensical.






Expansionism isn't just what land you own, its the ideas and power you use to expand your agenda on other people.

To me nonsensical=stupid.

And by your definition, any country that plays on the world stage (i.e. the enture UN) is expansionist.

 

[All Else Failed]

To me nonsensical=stupid.

And by your definition, any country that plays on the world stage (i.e. the enture UN) is expansionist.

Well thats not what nonsensical means...so..



Well yeah, any country that exerts its power and influence on others is expansionist. It doesn't even have to do with owning or capturing land.

 

[dt3]

Well thats not what nonsensical means...so..



Well yeah, any country that exerts its power and influence on others is expansionist. It doesn't even have to do with owning or capturing land.

EVERY country exerts itself on other countries in some way. Otherwise no country would survive.

 

[All Else Failed]

EVERY country exerts itself on other countries in some way. Otherwise no country would survive.

No, not all countries do on the scale where is would be considered expansionist.

There is a big difference between interacting with other countries and actually making them do what you want.

 

[dt3]

Well yeah, any country that exerts its power and influence on others is expansionist. It doesn't even have to do with owning or capturing land.

No, not all countries do on the scale where is would be considered expansionist.

Next, you're gonna try to convince me these two posts don't contradict each other.

Which is about as likely as you enlisting or voting Republican.

 

[All Else Failed]

Next, you're gonna try to convince me these two posts don't contradict each other.

Which is about as likely as you enlisting or voting Republican.

When I said that in my first post, I though you'd realize that a country that INTERACTS (not exerts its control) with other countries would not be considered expansionist.


I thought it would be obvious that when I said that any country that exerts its influence in a way that would be considered expansionist is definitely not all countries....oh well.


Why the hell would I want to enlist? And I'm actually voting for Ron Paul soooo




EDIT: When I said that all countries that exert their power and influence on other countries are expansionist, they are only expansionist if they use that power to control or manipulate others.

 

[ardath]

it seems very telling that i started this thread talking about the foiled terrorist attacks on the uk and my real fears that by using the term 'islamists' we risk tarnishing and endangering a whole group of innocent people, and we end up talking about how great, or otherwise, the US is. so what did i say about the US being insular?
not everything in this world is about the US, SO PLEASE CAN WE GET OFF THE SUBJECT!!!!
and yes, i agree that every nation needs to look at and examine its shortcomings, to be honest i do not want to discuss those related to the US for americans are far better placed to do that, but here in the uk we have countless problems, such as a class divided society, lack of sufficient affordable housing, a blatantly unfair tax system that favours the rich and fleeces the poor, and a government that is hell bent on squandering tax payers money on sending yet more troops out to iraq rather than concentrating on domestic problems.
see, i can point the finger at the uk, just as you should point the finger at your own country, for it is only by doing so that change will ever come about!
patriotism is the precursor to war!
we can all celebrate what is good about where we live without resorting to jingoism!

 

[Maritxu]

Just in good fun

We're rich. So what? We work for it and we have the freedom and the laws to make it possible for those who want it.

Hmm mind you not everyone is rich in your country. Probably your country is one of the countries in the world with more difference between rich (people who have an airport at their home) and poor (the homeless guy you refuse to give your change to).

We have food. So what? We are just taking advantage of our resources, both natural and financial. We make it happen. There's not a third world county on the Earth that wouldn't do the same if given the same.

And you are not the only ones having it, I hope you know.

We have the freest country in the world. We're supposed to apologize for that? We're FREE!! Come join us!! Just learn the language, obey the laws and don't blow shit up. Stick to that, people will pretty much leave you alone.

This all reminds me of the beautiful speech of "i love America because we are free blah, blah" I hope you guys know that happens outside of America too and even more since your wonderful president took most of your civil rights away. Or just tell me in what way are you more free than me, or any other European, Australian etc. in this site.

We're powerful. So what? 231 years ago this week we were nothing but a bunch of ragged nationalists fighting for freedom from at the time the most powerful nation on the whole fucking planet.

Agreed, you guys are the world's first potence. It wouldn't matter to me if you wouldn't choose Bush and Cheney to rule the world, lol. It is not ok to go around making wars, and bringing imperialism back.

We're arrogant. No we're not. We just have a great country and we know it, so like I said we tend to be self absorbed, but not proactively, just by circumstance. That does NOT make us arrogant - just ignorant. Yeah, we should pay closer attention to what goes on around us, but is that any reason to hate us?

We as Americans do tend to be blissfully self-centered. That's why this place is so great to live in - we have so much great stuff going on here that we have a tendency to inadvertently cut ourselves off from the rest of the world and come off as self absorbed.

Got confused when reading those two parts together D

We tend to bully, but when we do, we'll pick up the ass that we just kicked, dust it off, prop it back up and say, "Now that we've kicked your ass by swatting a fly with a baseball bat, get back in there and make something of yourself. Here's a few billion to get you started. Don't fuck it up or we'll beat your ass again. Then give you more money to get yourself right."

Maybe you should consider that bullying is not right? Who gave you the moral right to get into other countries businesses and make "freedom" wars? I don't know if the a mother who lost here two children would be thankful that America is a nice bully. I'm sorry but your foreing policy can't get much worse. Not fault of the American people, of course not, but do not defend imperialism, hun.

I know I cannot be considered objective in this since I am an American and proudly so, but I won't hesitate to point out the warts of America, her administration, her policies (foreign and domestic), military strategy and execution, laws and behavior as a whole.

And that's one of the things I like most about your country. People like you who can be critic to their own goverments. I don't know why but for some people in the US it's hard to do that and be patriotic. It's always good to know there are freethinkers.

We're not monsters. America's made up of wonderful people who care for people of all nations, creeds, religions, orientations and the like. We can't help it if either a) truly evil people (islamic terrorists) or b) people who've never been here (99% of the world) or c) narrow-minded people who already make up their minds about us given what they "think they know" think that we are monsters. What can we do? They don't know us!! We're good people, by and large. There are rotten apples in every barrel, and we have our fair share, but no more than any other country, dammit, and it's time that the world starts recognizing that.

I couldn't agree more. Americans are wonderful people by large. I always liked and respected your country very much though I couldn't disagree more with the goverment. And when I met Americans, I truly thought that would be a good reason to visit and even stay in the US.

 

[Maritxu]

I didn't call patriotism stupid. I just think its nonsensical.

I would actually hope that the more human beings evolve morally we would learn to love the humanity as a whole rather than just the people in the country we had the luck or misfortune to be born into. Nationalism used to be useful, now it should be moe than obsolete.

 

[ardath]

good to hear from you maritxu.
i agree with you totally.
here in the uk we have had more than our fair share of 'empire building', as has spain, so perhaps we have a more intrinsic understanding of how fundamentally wrong it is to attempt to impose a nation's will on another's land and culture. and of course the english also felt that they were doing the indigenous peoples in parts of asia and africa a big favour by inflicting upon them their version of a civilised society. and now, over one hundred and eighty years later, we are still saying sorry.

 

[Maritxu]

good to hear from you maritxu.
i agree with you totally.
here in the uk we have had more than our fair share of 'empire building', as has spain, so perhaps we have a more intrinsic understanding of how fundamentally wrong it is to attempt to impose a nation's will on another's land and culture. and of course the english also felt that they were doing the indigenous peoples in parts of asia and africa a big favour by inflicting upon them their version of a civilised society. and now, over one hundred and eighty years later, we are still saying sorry.

We all made mistakes through history and we all should learn from them. I would have expected America to learn from theirs and our mistakes too.
And getting back on topic, I think the word used to speak about Al qaeda and their kind it's terrorists, or murderers, you can choose This is not a religion war, Iraq has little to do with 9/11 and muslims are not the ones to blame (I don't know how many times I said this on PH, hhaha)

 

[ardath]

all too often though religion is blamed, as in the current situation in the middle east, and certainly some world leaders will use religion to mobilise a nation against a percieved enemy - as is currently the case in iran - but as with the isrealis all wars are ever about is human greed.

 

[Mrs Behavin]

it seems very telling that i started this thread talking about the foiled terrorist attacks on the uk and my real fears that by using the term 'islamists' we risk tarnishing and endangering a whole group of innocent people, and we end up talking about how great, or otherwise, the US is. so what did i say about the US being insular?
not everything in this world is about the US, SO PLEASE CAN WE GET OFF THE SUBJECT!!!!
and yes, i agree that every nation needs to look at and examine its shortcomings, to be honest i do not want to discuss those related to the US for americans are far better placed to do that, but here in the uk we have countless problems, such as a class divided society, lack of sufficient affordable housing, a blatantly unfair tax system that favours the rich and fleeces the poor, and a government that is hell bent on squandering tax payers money on sending yet more troops out to iraq rather than concentrating on domestic problems.
see, i can point the finger at the uk, just as you should point the finger at your own country, for it is only by doing so that change will ever come about!
patriotism is the precursor to war!
we can all celebrate what is good about where we live without resorting to jingoism!

:wtf_anim:

 

[alleycat]

Next, you're gonna try to convince me these two posts don't contradict each other.

Which is about as likely as you enlisting or voting Republican.

LOL!!!! Dude... You rule!!

 

[dt3]

I would actually hope that the more human beings evolve morally we would learn to love the humanity as a whole rather than just the people in the country we had the luck or misfortune to be born into. Nationalism used to be useful, now it should be moe than obsolete.

No, you can't choose where you're born. But you can damn sure be proud/thankful of your country for all that it has given you.

 

[dt3]

all too often though religion is blamed, as in the current situation in the middle east, and certainly some world leaders will use religion to mobilise a nation against a percieved enemy - as is currently the case in iran - but as with the isrealis all wars are ever about is human greed.

Who's using religion as a reason to attack Iran?

 

[Maritxu]

No, you can't choose where you're born. But you can damn sure be proud/thankful of your country for all that it has given you.

I give to my country and the country gives back to me. I love it here and I like the people. But If I moved to another country, it would be the same right? you are where your heart belongs and that may be away from the place you grow up. As much as you may move to a different city than the one you were born and that doesn't mean you can't love your new city or dislike your birthplace.

 

[All Else Failed]

I would actually hope that the more human beings evolve morally we would learn to love the humanity as a whole rather than just the people in the country we had the luck or misfortune to be born into. Nationalism used to be useful, now it should be moe than obsolete.

Yes, I agree. A person should have a commitment to the EARTH and to HUMANITY instead of where you just happen to be born.

No, you can't choose where you're born. But you can damn sure be proud/thankful of your country for all that it has given you.

Being thankful is fine, but nationalism only causes problems and divides among people.

 

[GraceAbounds]

There are Fanatical Islamic Muslims that are terrorists. This does not however make all Islamics terrorists or all Muslims terrorists. But I will not stop using the term Fanatical Islamic Muslim Terrorists. If that is what they are, that is what they are. I am Christian and I have no problem with people saying that someone was a Right Wing Fanatical Christian Terrorists. It is when broad strokes are made and a difference is not established that is irritating, but that usually comes from someone that is fanatical to the opposite extreme and are no better than the ones they are complaining of.