Some good news for a change

[Minor Axis]

We are going to be owned by Islamic s
they have tons of money and the already rich want some of it
Obama has been planning that from the beginning

That's about the time the UN passes their anti-gun treaty that Obama supports, what will over ride our Second Amendment protections, so the U.S. Military can come door to door to take our guns. Before you laugh your ass off, this was recently told to me just prior to the election by a woman Republican (what else) from Montana who got it on good authority from her son in the National Guard... :smiley24:

Ok, this interesting and I have a question (nonpartisan) for you or anyone else that can answer.

So by 2017 the US will be the largest oil producing nation. Now does that mean we will have the largest resources or does that still belong to the middle east? That's important to know because if we crank up production and if it shortens our supply here in the states, does that make us even more dependent in the future to the middle east? And how soon might that happen???

One more question.
So we are producing more oil here in the states. How does that help us economically?
I understand that it does employ more people here in the states with great paying jobs, but how else does it help us as the nation?
Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, the oil produced (drilled for) in the united states goes on the world market. The oil in the US isn't nationalized, so it belongs to whoever drills for it. It's then sold on the world market where every nation has the opportunity to buy it.
Whether the oil is drilled out of Saudi Arabia or Texas it all goes on the world market where we buy it at set prices...

So how does that help us?

It helps Exxon and BP pump up their coffers, give their employees a leg up if the bosses will share, and give their retiring CEO's $400 million retirement packages. I know nothing about them giving this country any breaks if there is money to be made in the world market. BTW, WTF are they doing with government subsides?

 

[Stone]

Ok, this interesting and I have a question (nonpartisan) for you or anyone else that can answer.

So by 2017 the US will be the largest oil producing nation. Now does that mean we will have the largest resources or does that still belong to the middle east? That's important to know because if we crank up production and if it shortens our supply here in the states, does that make us even more dependent in the future to the middle east? And how soon might that happen???

One more question.
So we are producing more oil here in the states. How does that help us economically?
I understand that it does employ more people here in the states with great paying jobs, but how else does it help us as the nation?
Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, the oil produced (drilled for) in the united states goes on the world market. The oil in the US isn't nationalized, so it belongs to whoever drills for it. It's then sold on the world market where every nation has the opportunity to buy it.
Whether the oil is drilled out of Saudi Arabia or Texas it all goes on the world market where we buy it at set prices...

So how does that help us?

Now does that mean we will have the largest resources or does that still belong to the middle east? That's important to know because if we crank up production and if it shortens our supply here in the states, does that make us even more dependent in the future to the middle east? And how soon might that happen???

With deep water extraction in the Gulf, I suspect the US reserves are greater and then add in our shale oil.....considerably greater. One issue is rates of extraction, but new tech has been seeing advances.
I'd have to search on time line....but as I remember, those reserves are so massive, we're talking about 100's of years of extraction, not decades......but of our future use, not the worlds.
Also.....it's not just oil reserves in the news, there's been a big boom in natural gas extraction.
Prices have fallen and one report I read several months ago noted that extraction was so great that even storage was becoming difficult to find.
The US is becoming a big exporter of natural gas.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwiler/2012/11/08/us-natural-gas-exports-poised-for-take-off/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444223104578036403362012318.html

So we are producing more oil here in the states. How does that help us economically?

For one, we become less dependent upon supporting 'national security interests' in unstable parts of the oil producing world.
We would be less influenced by speculation in spot markets of international oil....and if you remember, that was also a major negative influence during the bank failures.
Stable energy pricing should/would be beneficial to long range business plans.....lessening the extremes of business cycles and a positive influence on inflation.

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, the oil produced (drilled for) in the united states goes on the world market.

Some does....as I remember, mostly Alaskan oil.
Don't know the current stats, but right after the Alaskan pipeline was built, a lot of oil was exported to Japan.

The oil in the US isn't nationalized, so it belongs to whoever drills for it. It's then sold on the world market where every nation has the opportunity to buy it.

This link shows exports
http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/oil_exports.html
1.92 million bbl/day

This link show field production slightly less than 6 million bbl/day
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus1&f=a

Cartels still influence distribution and extraction....and of course politics is also a major influence.
Of note....if this is correct, the Bush group may appear to have lost a lot of influence in controlling Iraqi oil.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20121108/ml-iraq-oil/

Whether the oil is drilled out of Saudi Arabia or Texas it all goes on the world market where we buy it at set prices...

Most of it is by contracted prices set in advance.....and it's not really a free market place with cartels and politics in play........but as I mentioned before, speculation in futures is the wild card.....and anytime we are reducing our exposure, we're building stability into our economy.

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-speculation-raise-gas-price.htm
This article from 2008 shows how complex the oil game can be:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/perhaps-60-of-today-s-oil-price-is-pure-speculation/8878



I think it should be emphasized that becoming flush with energy is not a rational excuse to go back to wasteful habits.
We still need technologies that lead to greater efficiencies and new energy sources.

 

[Stone]

.................................... I know nothing........................

:thumbup.....:thumbup

 

[Alien Allen]

:thumbup.....:thumbup

Damn it you beat me to it

 

[The Man]

Ok, this interesting and I have a question (nonpartisan) for you or anyone else that can answer.

So by 2017 the US will be the largest oil producing nation. Now does that mean we will have the largest resources or does that still belong to the middle east? That's important to know because if we crank up production and if it shortens our supply here in the states, does that make us even more dependent in the future to the middle east? And how soon might that happen???

One more question.
So we are producing more oil here in the states. How does that help us economically?
I understand that it does employ more people here in the states with great paying jobs, but how else does it help us as the nation?
Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way I understand it, the oil produced (drilled for) in the united states goes on the world market. The oil in the US isn't nationalized, so it belongs to whoever drills for it. It's then sold on the world market where every nation has the opportunity to buy it.
Whether the oil is drilled out of Saudi Arabia or Texas it all goes on the world market where we buy it at set prices...

So how does that help us?

We are the biggest consumers of oil.



US – 19.15 million barrels
China – 9.06 million barrels
Japan – 4.45 million barrels
India – 3.32 million barrels
Russia – 3.2 million barrels
Saudi Arabia – 2.81 million barrels
Brazil – 2.6 million barrels
Germany – 2.44 million barrels
South Korea – 2.38 million barrels
Canada – 2.28 million barrels


As we can see use about as mush as the next top four combined....we use alot of oil.
By us adding globally what we use...its a market flood.
The "others oil" and our oil will make a larger supply ...competition brings down the prices.
Also..when the ME is unstable..oil goes up...this happens due to concerns of an oil crises happening.
Alot of oil is bought on contract with a set price...when supply becomes questionable..people bid high.
After the dust settles with the "scares"...alot of oil is already contracted in..so when the scare is over they are still paying the contract price.
Eliminating the ME {mid east} from the equation is win win all the way around.
The price of oil going down will surge the economy as it is a major expense in many fields.

 

[Accountable]

You need only study Canada's Oil industry to see how it benefits the companies and not the people..

Canada generates more raw Oil than it uses.. Yet due to markets and situation, we still end up buying loads from South America..

And our gas prices are way above the US prices at the pump..

Another reason that we should consider treating multinational corporations as if they were separate nations. Treaties instead of contracts, Tariffs instead of taxes.

 

[Stone]

You need only study Canada's Oil industry to see how it benefits the companies and not the people..

Canada generates more raw Oil than it uses.. Yet due to markets and situation, we still end up buying loads from South America..

And our gas prices are way above the US prices at the pump..

And our gas prices are way above the US prices at the pump

Canadian fossil fuels do carry more taxation than the US.
March 2011
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/canada...ices-higher-than-u-s-because-of-higher-taxes/

excerpt>

A separate ranking of gas prices before taxes reported in The Province puts Vancouver’s price at just 83.5 cents a litre, just a hair above the Canadian average of 83.1 and well behind cities like Saskatoon (89.2), Winnipeg (87.1) and Calgary (84.7). That means that about 40 percent of what Canadian motorists pay at the pump goes to taxes.

 

[Francis]

Canadian fossil fuels do carry more taxation than the US.
March 2011
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/canada...ices-higher-than-u-s-because-of-higher-taxes/

excerpt>

Yes, of course, but Canada one would expect a country that has its own supply to have a much cheaper cost than anyone else even if it is highly taxed. Also Canada returns many of those taxes to the Oil industry in forms of subsidies..

Directly at this time over $1.3 billion dollars ( that we know of )..

http://www.canada.com/business/Kent...nate+fossil+fuel+subsidies/6801941/story.html

Indirectly it cost Canadian tax payers a lot more to feed the Oil Market and companies much more in tax deductions.

Meanwhile we do not see the benefits of the tax money taken from the Gas taxes that are supposed to go directly to road improvements and infrastructure maintenance and rebuilding for up-keeping.

Makes one wonder what the money is going to..

 

[Stone]

Yes, of course, but Canada one would expect a country that has its own supply to have a much cheaper cost than anyone else even if it is highly taxed. Also Canada returns many of those taxes to the Oil industry in forms of subsidies..

Directly at this time over $1.3 billion dollars ( that we know of )..

http://www.canada.com/business/Kent...nate+fossil+fuel+subsidies/6801941/story.html

Indirectly it cost Canadian tax payers a lot more to feed the Oil Market and companies much more in tax deductions.

Meanwhile we do not see the benefits of the tax money taken from the Gas taxes that are supposed to go directly to road improvements and infrastructure maintenance and rebuilding for up-keeping.

Makes one wonder what the money is going to..

I don't know the issues with your dynamic.....but one thing that does stand out and very obvious....not being tied to Middle East oil dependency, your role in the 'war on terror' has been less.
From the loss of life in military conflict and the personal expenses associated with it to horrendous costs of maintaining a military machine in action, the bad will it generates to the degradation of our moral center .....trust me, Francis....your oil glut is an advantage I wish the US had been experiencing all along.

 

[Tim]

....we use alot of oil.
By us adding globally what we use...its a market flood.
The "others oil" and our oil will make a larger supply ...competition brings down the prices.

I agree that if we produce more oil it can stabilize the market. That's definitely a plus

But what makes you think prices are going to drop? The US is not in charge of how much oil is going on the market because we do not own the oil. Do you really think that the oil companies who produce this oil will flood the market thus making their product less profitable? They will do what they can to keep the price as high as possible thus making the most profit.

You also need to take into consideration the price per barrel for extraction. The oil in the middle east is very cheap to get at and costs much less to refine than many other places, including the US.

I wish BadBoy would come back and clear this up for you guys. He's very high in the ranks at an oil company and he and I have had some long conversations about cost of extraction and the type of oil it is which determines how expensive it is to refine. Not all oil is created equal, not even close.

Take for example the tar sands. The cost of extracting and refining this oil is so high, that it cannot be done unless a barrel of oil is over $120. Anything less than that and you are working at a loss.
Then there is the light sweet crude in the middle east that can be extracted and processed with profit if the price of a barrel is under $40...
Not all oil is created equal.

 

[Stone]

I agree that if we produce more oil it can stabilize the market. That's definitely a plus

But what makes you think prices are going to drop? The US is not in charge of how much oil is going on the market because we do not own the oil. Do you really think that the oil companies who produce this oil will flood the market thus making their product less profitable? They will do what they can to keep the price as high as possible thus making the most profit.

You also need to take into consideration the price per barrel for extraction. The oil in the middle east is very cheap to get at and costs much less to refine than many other places, including the US.

I wish BadBoy would come back and clear this up for you guys. He's very high in the ranks at an oil company and he and I have had some long conversations about cost of extraction and the type of oil it is which determines how expensive it is to refine. Not all oil is created equal, not even close.

Take for example the tar sands. The cost of extracting and refining this oil is so high, that it cannot be done unless a barrel of oil is over $120. Anything less than that and you are working at a loss.
Then there is the light sweet crude in the middle east that can be extracted and processed with profit if the price of a barrel is under $40...
Not all oil is created equal.

All relevant....

But your scenario lacks the impact of OPEC......the political influence on both extraction and pricing.
Being a major oil consumer, much of OPEC attention in the past has been on the US.
Reduce that dependence and it's logical that pricing and supply is less dominated by politics.

Interesting article here on OPEC and it's influence:

http://www.ensec.org/index.php?opti...el&catid=110:energysecuritycontent&Itemid=366

 

[Minor Axis]

Damn it you beat me to it

And you know something about it. What do you know?

 

[The Man]

I agree that if we produce more oil it can stabilize the market. That's definitely a plus

But what makes you think prices are going to drop? The US is not in charge of how much oil is going on the market because we do not own the oil. Do you really think that the oil companies who produce this oil will flood the market thus making their product less profitable? They will do what they can to keep the price as high as possible thus making the most profit.

You also need to take into consideration the price per barrel for extraction. The oil in the middle east is very cheap to get at and costs much less to refine than many other places, including the US.

I wish BadBoy would come back and clear this up for you guys. He's very high in the ranks at an oil company and he and I have had some long conversations about cost of extraction and the type of oil it is which determines how expensive it is to refine. Not all oil is created equal, not even close.

Take for example the tar sands. The cost of extracting and refining this oil is so high, that it cannot be done unless a barrel of oil is over $120. Anything less than that and you are working at a loss.
Then there is the light sweet crude in the middle east that can be extracted and processed with profit if the price of a barrel is under $40...
Not all oil is created equal.

Oil prices are influenced by scares..take Iran and Libya for instance...with Iran the fear of hostility at sea which can prevent shipping with libya and the unrest {although they are not world leaders}
Opec also decreasing production...causes oil prices to go up as supply is less.
They then increase production {In simpler terms they are fucking with everyone}
The keystone piple line...just mere talk of it and its progress or lack of changes oil prices.
Much oil is bought by contract...a price is agreed upon...they have to deliver at the at price even if the market changes.
This takes out the basic supply and demand for pricing.
I will use food as an example
Look at it like this...lets say a drought could be foreseen.
Buyers buy at a contract price {they pay more as a drought is foreseen foreseen}
Ok...the drought doesnt happen...they still pay the high price that they contracted for.

Oil is the same way...much of it is bought by "How much it is going to be"

Ok lets take the game out of the equation for a minute {of price guessing}...we now get back to price being by supply and demand.
With the US being a major player and and providing alot of oil, supply goes way up...prices fall.
Additionally it is steady and not subject to scares which escalate prices.
Granted none of the above will apply if Opec tactics are used.
Which is essentially an illegal practice in the united states.

 

[The Man]

I would also like to add,,,the very announcement that we will be pumping much oil is bringing down the price of oil.
If Saudi Arabia said they would boycott us ...oil would go up in price...even if the boycott never happened..due to buying contracts.

 

[Stone]

Some more good news for a change:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/has-the-housing-recovery-arrived.html/

The United States Department of Housing and Urban Development released residential construction numbers for October on Tuesday. Data show that housing starts have hit a four-year high, building on a series of good news coming out of the housing sector.



“Builders are reporting an increasing demand for new homes as inventories of foreclosed and distressed properties begin to shrink in markets across the country,” he said in the report. Distressed home sales accounted for a 0.3 percent decline in home prices from August to September, a blemish on seven consecutive months of year-over-year increases.

OK Francis......gnash your teeth as you try to find something wrong with this....

 

[Minor Axis]

Source: news.investors.com

Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II.

In fact, outside of that post-WWII era, the only time the deficit has fallen faster was when the economy relapsed in 1937, turning the Great Depression into a decade-long affair.

Ok, local Curmudgeons, start ripping.

 

[Alien Allen]

you really expect me to be impressed

that is a good example though how you can make numbers do anything you want

but then people that buy that crap also think that SS is solvent

 

[Francis]

OK Francis......gnash your teeth as you try to find something wrong with this....

Why would I try to find anything wrong in what I have been saying for a while.. Housing for almost a year has been getting better from the collapse and statistics said it would soon see most foreclosed houses mostly all taken back up. Does that mean all of them will be, I gather not because some of those were trashed from what I have been told, but if the majority were than new houses will have to be built..

I can only hope the positive trend ( hence my comment about positive consumer confidence ) will continue to grow.. So thanks for proving me right..

 

[Minor Axis]

you really expect me to be impressed

I expect you to bad mouth everything I post.

 

[Alien Allen]

I expect you to bad mouth everything I post.

you are just an easy mark

do you not understand the math?

you can not compare todays dollars to some that are 60 years old

If you do then I would be living on easy street if my wages 40 years ago were what they are today

Numbers can do what ever you want them to.