Society without God

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doombug

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I think most societies have things that are considered inappropriate to discuss or are of a private nature. I did farm work as a teenager with some temporary immigrants from Mexico. One of them asked me if I had a girlfriend. I said no. Then he asked how many times I masturbate each week. There's nothing really wrong with the question but it wasn't something I was used to being asked. lol

I lived in Mexico for a while and I have to say that hombre was making fun of you. Sure other societies are more open than the US about things but that guy was clearly making fun of you.
 
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Minor Axis

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Why would women do that? I was referring to things like sex education, the availability of condoms to teenagers, the affordability of birth control pills, and unhindered access to the morning after pill.

My impression is that it happens for lack of precautions, preplanning.
 

BornReady

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I definitely would agree it's a topic that can light people up in this country, and if you value peace at all, it's best leaving it alone.

Yeah. After my wife left Christianity she told her parents. They didn't understand and wanted to know why. When she tried to explain, they became offended. They began criticizing her and said some nasty things. She told them to be nice or leave her alone. They chose the latter. She hasn't spoken to them for 3 or 4 years now. The unfortunate incident could have been avoided if we all would have left the topic alone. My wife's decision was a personal matter that didn't need to involve them.

I don't talk about religion with my dad. He certainly wouldn't approve of the church I go to. But the topic never comes up. I get along just fine with my dad even though we have very different world views. There's something to be said for the Denmark way.
 

Panacea

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Yeah. After my wife left Christianity she told her parents. They didn't understand and wanted to know why. When she tried to explain, they became offended. They began criticizing her and said some nasty things. She told them to be nice or leave her alone. They chose the latter. She hasn't spoken to them for 3 or 4 years now. The unfortunate incident could have been avoided if we all would have left the topic alone. My wife's decision was a personal matter that didn't need to involve them.

I don't talk about religion with my dad. He certainly wouldn't approve of the church I go to. But the topic never comes up. I get along just fine with my dad even though we have very different world views. There's something to be said for the Denmark way.


Ya, that's quite unfortunate, and from my view at least- unnecessary. When I was in North Carolina I avoided the topic like the plague, because I knew relationships would be destroyed otherwise. Silly.
 

Minor Axis

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Yeah. After my wife left Christianity she told her parents. They didn't understand and wanted to know why. When she tried to explain, they became offended. They began criticizing her and said some nasty things. She told them to be nice or leave her alone. They chose the latter. She hasn't spoken to them for 3 or 4 years now. The unfortunate incident could have been avoided if we all would have left the topic alone. My wife's decision was a personal matter that didn't need to involve them.

I don't talk about religion with my dad. He certainly wouldn't approve of the church I go to. But the topic never comes up. I get along just fine with my dad even though we have very different world views. There's something to be said for the Denmark way.

Sorry for the heart aches... I am pretty consistently amazed how relationships are held secondarily to "standards". If her parents had the right spirit, I don't think they would have abandoned their daughter. Instead staying in her life, making a difference.

I had a very interesting experience in my life with a grandchild who was ours for several years before we discovered, he was not related to us by blood. No,no don't ask for details. ;) Anyway, we have maintained as close a relationship as grandparents can keep with a grandchild, despite some very religious people tell us we should step away from this innocent child as if it was his fault... Unfrick'n-believable.
 

Tuffdisc

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now bring that to the present day,but dont forget the crusades,the black moors.ireland and most of the wars in africa at the moment

If someone doesn't follow what's written in the Bible, would you call that religious? Present day? Who is causing war in the present day? Plus there are plenty more of wars created by atheists and pagans that I haven't mentioned
 

skyblue

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If someone doesn't follow what's written in the Bible, would you call that religious? Present day? Who is causing war in the present day? Plus there are plenty more of wars created by atheists and pagans that I haven't mentioned

ok...look at the grief at the moment...most of it revolves around christianity and islam,and even WW11 had its religious aspects if you bring the jews into it,and every conflict in africa at the moment is islam based...and believe it or not,pagan views were actually religeous
 

Tuffdisc

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ok...look at the grief at the moment...most of it revolves around christianity and islam,and even WW11 had its religious aspects if you bring the jews into it,and every conflict in africa at the moment is islam based...and believe it or not,pagan views were actually religeous

Hitler denounced Christianity and other religions, so how that revolves around religion I don't know, but like I said or asked, if someone disobeyed the teaching of the Bible or Koran, or Torah, would you called that society or person Christian, Muslim or Jewish?
 

BornReady

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Wars are complex and probably difficult to pin on a single cause. Anyway, Zuckerman makes an astute distinction between organic atheism and atheism forced on the people by a tyrant. He said the second form has always caused suffering. But it is a different matter with organic atheism, that is atheism freely chosen by the people. Denmark is proof that societies with a large organic atheist majority can be quite peaceful.
 

Tuffdisc

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Wars are complex and probably difficult to pin on a single cause. Anyway, Zuckerman makes an astute distinction between organic atheism and atheism forced on the people by a tyrant. He said the second form has always caused suffering. But it is a different matter with organic atheism, that is atheism freely chosen by the people. Denmark is proof that societies with a large organic atheist majority can be quite peaceful.

I am not saying that atheists cannot be peaceful, everyone is capable of doing wrong as well as good
 

doombug

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Nah, Communism in the last century is proof that Atheist societies aren't what people try to paint them. Zuckerman is definitely biased in his writing and research so I'm sure he picked a country that he could skew the data with.
 

Peter Parka

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Hitler denounced Christianity and other religions, so how that revolves around religion I don't know, but like I said or asked, if someone disobeyed the teaching of the Bible or Koran, or Torah, would you called that society or person Christian, Muslim or Jewish?

GodwinsLaw_CatPoster.jpg


:24:
 

savvy

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I guess to study Denmark one could make the data fit whatever one wanted, which seems to be the case here. Personal experience is usually different than statistics. Take the experience of Christopher Hitchens' own brother Peter who changed his atheist view after actually experiencing what an atheist society was like.

This is from an article wrote about Peter Hitchens: “ Peter wrote that his views changed slowly, as he came to see the fruit of atheism. Part of this realisation came when he was working as a journalist in Moscow, during the final years of the Soviet Union. His depiction of this godless society was sobering. He wrote of the riots that broke out when the vodka ration was cancelled one week; the bribes required to obtain anaesthetics at the dentist or antibiotics at the hospital; the frightening levels of divorce and abortion; the mistrust and surveillance; the unending official lies, manipulation and oppression; the squalor, desperation and harsh incivility. Peter wrote of how traffic stops dead in Moscow when rain begins to fall, as every driver fetches wind-screen wipers from their hiding places and quickly fits them to their holders. Any wipers left in place when the car is parked are stolen as a matter of course. The atheist, humanistic ideology of the state, he believed, had even affected the Russian language. Peter spoke to a descendant of an exile, whose grandparents had fled Moscow in the days of Lenin. Having been brought up to speak pure Russian in his American home—the elegant, literary language of his parents—he was shocked when he visited Russia to hear the coarse, ugly, slang-infested and bureaucratic tongue that was now spoken, even by educated professionals."
 

clancy

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I guess using a country like China would be out because there are too many human rights abuse issues. It wouldn't fit the desired results.
 

MrHeinz

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There have been twenty-eight countries in world history that can be confirmed to have been ruled by regimes with avowed atheists at the helm. These twenty-eight historical regimes have been ruled by eighty-nine atheists, of whom more than half have engaged in democidal acts like that committed by Stalin and Mao.

If you look at the years between 1917 and 2007 approximately 148 million people were murdered by atheist leaders. That is 3 times more than all human beings killed by war, civil war and individual crime in the entire 20th century.

People mention Pol Pot but few remember there was a Mengistu, a Bierut, and a Choibalsan, atheists who ruled with a bloody hand. If you really look at history the average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them.

Forget Denmark if history is any indication a society without God is not a good idea.
 
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