Should Circumcision be banned?

[dkwrtw]

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/Circumcision-ban-misses-mark-for-citys-Jews-109123969.html

SAN FRANCISCO — The Jewish community in San Francisco is outraged about the move to criminalize circumcision, which is an integral part of the religion.

San Francisco resident Lloyd Schofield is proposing a measure for the November 2011 ballot to amend The City’s police code to make it a misdemeanor to circumcise, excise, cut or mutilate the foreskin, testicles or penis of a man who has not reached the age of 18. Doing so would result in a fine of up to $1,000 and up to one year in jail, according to the proposed measure submitted to the Department of Elections.

“There will be nearly universal opposition in the Jewish community,” said Marvin Goodman, executive director for the Northern California Board of Rabbis. “The Jewish community will actively mobilize with other faith communities to make sure this doesn’t pass. It would have monumental impact on Jews living in San Francisco.”

The proposal — which needs 7,168 valid signatures by April 26 to qualify for the ballot — would face legal questions if it were to be approved by San Francisco voters.

Peter Keane, a professor of constitutional law at Golden Gate University, said banning circumcisions is a glaring violation on many levels.

“Since it’s an essential part of religion with Jewish people, to prevent them from engaging in it would be seen as a violation of their right to exercise freedom of religion,” Keane said.

In addition, the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects a parent’s right to make decisions regarding the care of their children, he said.

“It could never be enforced,” Keane said. “As soon as the government attempted to enforce it and prevent someone from
circumcising a child, that person would go into court and it would be thrown on its face.”

The fact that the debate is surfacing now — after studies showing the procedure’s health benefits — has rocked the Jewish community.

Nearly 60 percent of all men in the Bay Area are circumcised, which is relatively low compared to other parts of the nation where 95 percent of men have had the procedure, said Laurence Baskin, a professor of urology at UC San Francisco.

Studies show that circumcised men are less likely to contract urinary tract infections and they have a lower chance of acquiring sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV, Baskin said.

For the Jewish community, however, circumcisions are a defining part of their religious culture, symbolizing the covenant between Jewish males and God.

“This is a 3,800-year-old ritual that is very deeply ingrained in Jewish psyche,” said Stephen S. Pearce, a rabbi at San Francisco’s congregation Emanu-El. “To ban that would be to interfere in a synagogue matter.”

I just came across this article about a movement to ban circumcision in San Francisco, ya know I've never thought of it as mutilation but I suppose that's exactly what it is, I've always just thought of circumcision as a normal thing, I'm not jewish at all and I was circumcised, what do you guys think about this?

 

[Dana]

eh no.... uncircumcised penis looks weird..... not that ive looked at any.... jus sayin. I'm not Jewish either. I think it's normal practice nowadays.

 

[dkwrtw]

eh no.... uncircumcised penis looks weird..... not that ive looked at any.... jus sayin. I'm not Jewish either. I think it's normal practice nowadays.

That's what I'm saying, an uncut penis just doesn't look right! There is evidence to suggest that there could be health benefits to having the procedure, and as far as I know there aren't any drawbacks to it(I could be wrong, just saying that as far as I know there aren't) I don't think of it as "Mutilation" I think of it as a legitimate medical procedure, and I feel that parents should have the right to choose if their child is to be circumcised or not.

 

[Dana]

That's what I'm saying, an uncut penis just doesn't look right! There is evidence to suggest that there could be health benefits to having the procedure, and as far as I know there aren't any drawbacks to it(I could be wrong, just saying that as far as I know there aren't) I don't think of it as "Mutilation" I think of it as a legitimate medical procedure, and I feel that parents should have the right to choose if their child is to be circumcised or not.

they just want something to rant about... mutilation is a guy i used to see who worked at a local record store franchise that had his ears gauged so big he hung locks from them.

 

[cam elle toe]

Its VERY hard to find a doctor here that WILL do it.

Its unneccessary and barbaric IMO.

(Notice the IMO)

 

[dkwrtw]

Its VERY hard to find a doctor here that WILL do it.

Its unneccessary and barbaric IMO.

(Notice the IMO)

One could make the argument then that ALL unnecessary medical procedures then are barbaric and should be outlawed, do you feel that all procedures that aren't necessary to the survival of a person should be made illegal, such as liposuction, cosmetic surgery, heck even piercings.

 

[Guyzerr]

One could make the argument then that ALL unnecessary medical procedures then are barbaric and should be outlawed, do you feel that all procedures that aren't necessary to the survival of a person should be made illegal, such as liposuction, cosmetic surgery, heck even piercings.

Oh damn.... that's a great comeback.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

I agree with Cam as far as being unneccesary and barbaric. I won't be doing it to my sons.

It's more natural to NOT CUT the penis and to not REMOVE portions of the human body. It's mutilation, it's done without consent and the whole notion is rather disturbing.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

Oh damn.... that's a great comeback.

There's a big link missing in his comeback though. CONSENT.

 

[cam elle toe]

One could make the argument then that ALL unnecessary medical procedures then are barbaric and should be outlawed, do you feel that all procedures that aren't necessary to the survival of a person should be made illegal, such as liposuction, cosmetic surgery, heck even piercings.

No, because they are all performed on consenting adults who choose to have that done to them

A wee little baby has NO say in the matter..

and I said IMO...and reiterated the IMO

and I didnt say it should be illegal either.

 

[dkwrtw]

There's a big link missing in his comeback though. CONSENT.

I can see where you're coming from there, I just don't see any drawbacks to having the procedure done, I feel it should be the parents choice.

 

[dkwrtw]

No, because they are all performed on consenting adults who choose to have that done to them

A wee little baby has NO say in the matter..

and I said IMO...and reiterated the IMO

and I didnt say it should be illegal either.

I understand your feelings on it, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you having that opinion, I'm just giving my own thoughts on it.

 

[cam elle toe]

It took 3 years (and this was over 10 years ago) for a friend of mine to find a doctor that would perform one on her son.

I STILL remember the agony the poor little dude was in for weeks afterwards..

My son is not done, and his father wasnt either....


As for it looking weird not done, well....as long as it does the job, who cares what the fuck it looks like

 

[Guyzerr]

There's a big link missing in his comeback though. CONSENT.

Same would go for your kid. Who's to say he wouldn't want it done other than you the parent?

 

[Guyzerr]

It took 3 years (and this was over 10 years ago) for a friend of mine to find a doctor that would perform one on her son.

I STILL remember the agony the poor little dude was in for weeks afterwards..

My son is not done, and his father wasnt either....


As for it looking weird not done, well....as long as it does the job, who cares what the fuck it looks like

Personally speaking I would care. To me it looks like a ganglia that doesn't belong there.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

It's easier to do than it is to reverse, and I'd imagine the pain factor isn't too much different, so if when he's an adult and decides he wants a cut penis then that his decision. But after a circumcision the head is covered in a very fine layer of scar tissue and it's desensitized. That's not reversible.

 

[Dana]

How does a child consent to such a thing? It's the parents choice not the childs...

 

[HottyToddyChick]

Personally speaking I would care. To me it looks like a ganglia that doesn't belong there.

There's different degrees of excess flesh. I was doing research on it once because it's something Matt and I have discussed and I found a site where they rank the degree of circumcision from 1 to 10 where the skin is super tight or where there is a lot of excess and it gathers past the end even while the penis is erect. Lots of varieties.

 

[Guyzerr]

It's easier to do than it is to reverse, and I'd imagine the pain factor isn't too much different, so if when he's an adult and decides he wants a cut penis then that his decision. But after a circumcision the head is covered in a very fine layer of scar tissue and it's desensitized. That's not reversible.

From what I understand getting it done as an adult is a hell of a painful experience not to be fooled with. If it's done as an infant they have absolutely no recollection of it. Besides that, they cry for just a wee little while and it's all forgotten.

As far as a layer of scar tissue is concerned who to you that? Trust me when I tell you my willie can sense the breeze of a mosquito flying by.

 

[Dana]

as far as a layer of scar tissue is concerned who to you that? Trust me when i tell you my willie can sense the breeze of a mosquito flying by.

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