Science Saved My Soul.....................

[Zorak]

Which point was that?

It was a two fold interest: Firstly, that an omnipotent\omniscient God would have created cancer directly, irregardless as to his role in the 80 billion years of universal history; an omnipotent creator can never be indirectly responsible, even if He just set the atoms on their way in the deep dark expanse of nothing. Secondly, cancer is a byproduct of the process of the universe, one word might to describe this might be 'evolution', but I purposefully refrained from using that particular word.
Together these two interests make up my point: you will struggle to find the perfection attributed to divine creation in this universe of ours.

 

[sexysadie]

The problem with religion what you consider proof gets chalked up to faith
Personal experience doesn't really justify itself as proof because its undocumented and our minds can distort memories very easily, especially as we get older.

Ok honey, you just keep telling yourself that one and maybe you'll convince yourself if not anybody else of it's validity.

Truth is, as much as I don't share your doubt, I can understand it to a point. I wish I had the words to convince you but I don't....all I have is my faith, and like you said, to somebody who doesn't believe in God, faith doesn't hold water. Pity though.

 

[Johnfromokc]

By your definition........I guess He did. It must feel good to have somebody to blame for everything! Is that something you practice in your personal life as well?

On the contrary, I take full responsibility for my actions.

So why then do we have disease, war and famine? If man was created in gods image, then god must have a poor self image. God needs to step up and provide warranty coverage for all the misery and starvation he has created in Africa, India and other impoverished nations around the planet. There are billions of his children in those countries. Why is that?

No, god was created by man, my dear.

 

[sexysadie]

On the contrary, I take full responsibility for my actions.

So why then do we have disease, war and famine? If man was created in gods image, then god must have a poor self image. God needs to step up and provide warranty coverage for all the misery and starvation he has created in Africa, India and other impoverished nations around the planet. There are billions of his children in those countries. Why is that?

No, god was created by man, my dear.

God is not responsible for starving children and disease........we are. It's time to step up and take responsibility instead of placing the blame on God.

 

[itsmeJonB]

God is not responsible for starving children and disease........we are. It's time to step up and take responsibility instead of placing the blame on God.

God doesn't exist
But if he did, why would he populate the earth on ground that isn't fit for growing crops so people wouldn't be starving to begin with?

 

[sexysadie]

God doesn't exist
But if he did, why would he populate the earth on ground that isn't fit for growing crops so people wouldn't be starving to begin with?

You're asking questions that no human being can rightly answer. Is that how you win an argument, to ask the impossible?

I don't know why there's so much suffering in this world we live in, and I don't know how to fix it any more than you do, but what I do know is this, for God so loved the world that He gave us His only son, that he/she who believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. This world we live in is just a stepping stone to what is meant to be, and it's in this world that our actions get to speak louder than words. What kind of people would we be if God fixed everything? What kind of world would it be without faith?

 

[itsmeJonB]

I'm just saying if I were god I wouldn't put babies in africa just so they can die

 

[sexysadie]

I'm just saying if I were god I wouldn't put babies in africa just so they can die

He didn't put babies in Africa to die.....and if you WERE God you'd expect those you created to trust you. I know it can be hard to do at times, I cry every time I think about those children who are dying every day all around the world. But ours is not to question, ours is to trust. It's not about the obvious, there's a bigger picture that we can't see right now, but one day we will, that's His promise to us. To some it sounds like a lot to ask.....that's why faith is misunderstood. A lot of people mistake a persons faith for naivety or gullibility, but that's not so, faith is not an easy accomplishment, sometimes it takes something life altering to find it.....and it can be intensely difficult to defend.

 

[Tim]

God is not responsible for starving children and disease........we are. It's time to step up and take responsibility instead of placing the blame on God.

God is responsible.

Your god is all-knowing. In the bible it says that he knows every hair on your head, every thought you will ever have. It is all written in the book of life.
If he knew all of this before he ever created the earth, then why did he still do it?
Before he created the earth he intimately knowing the pain and suffering of every person throughout history. He felt the unimaginable pain of every child that has slowly starved to death. He has experienced the unimaginable pain of everyone who has been raped, tortured, blown apart by bombs, died of radiation poisoning, mutilated, drowned, died of cancer slowly, and every other abomination imaginable.
Yet he still went ahead and let it all happen through his creation. Nothing could have changed since your god is perfect and everything he created is as exactly how he wanted it to turn out, right?
So since he is perfect and he knew that cancer would exist in his creation and he didn't change anything, then he is the creator of everything including cancer.

If you know everything that was, is and ever will be, and you create something that is flawed, you cannot blame anyone but you. He created free will with the forethought of every bad thing it would bring, so he is absolutely responsible.

If you absolutely knew that if you had a child, that he would grow up and create the next holocaust. Who would be to blame if you decided to have that child even though you knew the outcome before you did? Would you still blame him because he had free will or would you blame yourself because you KNEW the outcome of his free will and you went ahead and gave birth to him anyway?

Now I know you well enough to know you won't answer my questions... So my post was more for me to get my thoughts out there and you don't need to worry about answering...

 

[sexysadie]

If God knows everything then woldn't it make sense to trust in Him? It' s not for us to say what's happened and what's not happened already, for all you know Tim, you may one day become one of God's greatest testimonials......isn't the idea of faith simply amazing?

 

[itsmeJonB]

I don't trust an authority figure who dares not be questioned
I am a free thinker and I think man made god and threw in the whole you have to have faith and not question any inconsistancies so they wouldn't get caught in a lie, and adults fell for it

 

[Tim]

If God knows everything then woldn't it make sense to trust in Him? It' s not for us to say what's happened and what's not happened already, for all you know Tim, you may one day become one of God's greatest testimonials......isn't the idea of faith simply amazing?

So all of the unimaginable suffering, pain and death in this world is nothing more than a platform for me to become a prophet for his perfection?

And lets not forget that you believe in his existence and perfection because of what other men have said. He has never talked to you and told you about his existence and what his plan is. You are only guessing that you picked the right religion and belief to have faith in. If you were born in Pakistan, you would be talking about Allah and how the Christians in the US have it wrong. And if you were born in China or India or Japan or any other place or time, your faith would be in some other deity.... right?

 

[sexysadie]

Have you ever known a man to create something so world renowned and not stick around to take the credit for it...lol

 

[itsmeJonB]

Have you ever known a man to create something so world renowned and not stick around to take the credit for it...lol

They did take credit for it. Every book has a name to it, someone else who wrote more lies put their name all over it.

 

[sexysadie]

So all of the unimaginable suffering, pain and death in this world is nothing more than a platform for me to become a prophet for his perfection?

And lets not forget that you believe in his existence and perfection because of what other men have said. He has never talked to you and told you about his existence and what his plan is. You are only guessing that you picked the right religion and belief to have faith in. If you were born in Pakistan, you would be talking about Allah and how the Christians in the US have it wrong. And if you were born in China or India or Japan or any other place or time, your faith would be in some other deity.... right?

The fact that you can sit there and claim to know so much about me Tim tells me a lot about your own character. I didn't PICK anything, it's not like a day at the market.True, I've never witnessed any burning1 bushes or the parting of any sea....but I've felt Him in my heart and at a time when I needed to feel Him the most, He made Himself known to me, something I don't expect you to understand unless you've gone through it yourself. I can assure you I'm perfectly sane and I'm in no way vulnerable or easily led, in fact, most would describe me as hard headed and a realist...but my faith in God remains solid. There's only one God, and He's many things to many different people, so I agree, no matter what part of the world a person is born in, God exists.

 

[sexysadie]

They did take credit for it. Every book has a name to it, someone else who wrote more lies put their name all over it.

...and they call themselves God??? What book are you referring to, I'd be interested in reading it.

 

[Johnfromokc]

If God knows everything then woldn't it make sense to trust in Him??

What? Trust an alleged deity that creates and allows situations like this?

How do believers reconcile this?

 

[sexysadie]

You allow it.....are there people out there who trust you sir?

 

[Tim]

You allow it.....are there people out there who trust you sir?

And god knew that this would happen and no one would help. Yet he decided that was ok with him.

Again, would you give birth to a child that you KNEW would kill millions of people one day? If you were an all knowing deity that knew it was going to happen, and you didn't stop it... you are the one to blame. period

 

[sexysadie]

And god knew that this would happen and no one would help. Yet he decided that was ok with him.

Again, would you give birth to a child that you KNEW would kill millions of people one day? If you were an all knowing deity that knew it was going to happen, and you didn't stop it... you are the one to blame. period

He only knows what happens because in the grand scheme of things, it's already happened, only we can change it. Period.