Satan. Created by God perfect and good or evil?

[darkangel]

Do you believe everyone in the world deserves to go to heaven?

I sure don't!

 

[Peter Parka]

Who do you think deserves to go to hell?

 

[anathelia]

Who do you think deserves to go to hell?

Seriously? Murderers, child molesters, etc.

 

[Peter Parka]

Seriously? Murderers, child molesters, etc.

which ect?

 

[anathelia]

which ect?

I really have to list off every type of person I don't think deserves to go to heaven? Use your brain, Peter.

 

[Peter Parka]

Well personally I think it's inhumane to burn anyone in absolute torture for all eternity, I personally find this religious belief offensive. If you did it in this world you'd be considered evil but because it's a religious thing, it's suddenly the good and best thing to do. I notice you just mentioned the things you think is bad and not what the Bible says is bad. The Bible also condemns gay people but you never said you think they should burn in hell.

 

[anathelia]

Well personally I think it's inhumane to burn anyone in absolute torture for all eternity, I personally find this religious belief offensive. If you did it in this world you'd be considered evil but because it's a religious thing, it's suddenly the good and best thing to do. I notice you just mentioned the things you think is bad and not what the Bible says is bad. The Bible also condemns gay people but you never said you think they should burn in hell.

Just because I believe in God doesn't mean I believe every word of the bible to be true. But I don't believe that people who do things such as what I listed previously deserve to be rewarded in the afterlife. That's all I'm saying. And just because the bible paints hell as this fiery place of doom and gloom doesn't mean that's what it's actually like, you know. The bible, in my opinion, is a bunch of stories that should be used to teach lessons, like Jesus' parables, not something you should take ver batim as gospel truth, for lack of a better way to describe it. The bible is up for interpretation. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Peter Parka]

Just because I believe in God doesn't mean I believe every word of the bible to be true. But I don't believe that people who do things such as what I listed previously deserve to be rewarded in the afterlife. That's all I'm saying. And just because the bible paints hell as this fiery place of doom and gloom doesn't mean that's what it's actually like, you know. The bible, in my opinion, is a bunch of stories that should be used to teach lessons, like Jesus' parables, not something you should take ver batim as gospel truth, for lack of a better way to describe it. The bible is up for interpretation. That's all I'm saying.

So you believe in hell but you dont know what it is but still think people should be sent there? Strange.

 

[anathelia]

So you believe in hell but you dont know what it is but still think people should be sent there? Strange.

Not that strange. Plenty of people believe in things they don't understand.

 

[Peter Parka]

True. I still find it strange to believe in something you dont understand though

 

[anathelia]

True. I still find it strange to believe in something you dont understand though

So, you're an atheist, then?

 

[Peter Parka]

So, you're an atheist, then?

No, I'm an agnostic. I don't rule out something without any proof. Personally I think there's far more evidence for evolution than a god making everything but that's still not conclusive. I wonder whether there might be a third option that no one's thought of yet? I certainly dont believe in the god of the Bible though, the Bible has too much stuff in it which is completely wrong.

 

[TheTinGirl]

There's a happy medium...
I don't believe on the walking on water, everyone came from two people stories, but I don't think there's no purpose in life.
Why can't other people just believe that if we were meant to know what was going to happen after death that we would know?
:cool
The devil is just the antagonist to the biggest widespread fairy tales in my opinion.
Every hero needs an evil villain.

 

[anathelia]

No, I'm an agnostic. I don't rule out something without any proof. Personally I think there's far more evidence for evolution than a god making everything but that's still not conclusive. I wonder whether there might be a third option that no one's thought of yet? I certainly dont believe in the god of the Bible though, the Bible has too much stuff in it which is completely wrong.

I may not be the best person to have this discussion with, because I believe in God, but I don't blindly believe in God. I do, in fact, believe in evolution. I think the two can coexist.

 

[Peter Parka]

I may not be the best person to have this discussion with, because I believe in God, but I don't blindly believe in God. I do, in fact, believe in evolution. I think the two can coexist.

Oh absolutely. Who's to say that god couldn't have put the whole process of evolution into motion? The Bible is just wrong though, things in it have been proved to be wrong.

 

[anathelia]

Oh absolutely. Who's to say that god couldn't have put the whole process of evolution into motion? The Bible is just wrong though, things in it have been proved to be wrong.

Like I said, I believe the bible is a bunch of stories that should be used to learn a lesson, not to be taken as fact.

 

[Peter Parka]

Like I said, I believe the bible is a bunch of stories that should be used to learn a lesson, not to be taken as fact.

Does that mean you're not a Christian then? Because being a Christian fundamentally means you believe in god and Jesus and if the Bible's just a bunch of stories not to be taken literally then surely their existence should be taken with a pinch of salt too?

 

[anathelia]

Does that mean you're not a Christian then? Because being a Christian fundamentally means you believe in god and Jesus and if the Bible's just a bunch of stories not to be taken literally then surely their existence should be taken with a pinch of salt too?

I believe there's something. Years of having religion shoved down my throat has led me to think it's Jesus/God. I more believe in a higher power. Saying I believe in God is more my way of giving it a name. I haven't delved into other religions enough to say I believe in their form of "God".

 

[Minor Axis]

Do you believe everyone in the world deserves to go to heaven?

I asked a question first. If God is all powerful, and he created Satan, he gives him leave to do as he will. Why would he do this?

Just what heaven is, is a separate debate although there will be much conjecture going on. I'm not sold on the concept you get one human life to get your act together (in other words figure it out and act properly) or you are damned forever. I lean towards thinking this is man's idea to hopefully keep the sheep inline.

BTW regarding Bible stories there are some good ones and then there are some terrible ones. The terrible ones that come to mind, not that I am a Bible scholar are the Story of Adam and Eve and how they blew paradise, The Arc and the Great Flood, and the Story of Job.

Seriously? Murderers, child molesters, etc.

Murder and child molestation are among the worst crimes I can think of. However the Christian way is to forgive. And if we spend only 5-90 years on this Earth and eternity in Heaven, how much weight should be placed on the evil deeds of a human during this brief time span especially if the idea is that the victims will end up partying in heaven? Could a murderer see the evil of their ways and deserve a second chance? Could they be salvaged? I will acknowledge that it is easy to say this on a philosophical basis versus being the one whose loved one suffered at the hands of a criminal, but this is a philosophical discussion.

That goes back to free will.

So as far as God's intentions towards his children, does Satan's ability to rain havoc upon the Earth effect the way you view God? Just curious. It's been a while since I've regularly attended church. For any regular church goer, how is Satan described these days, the ultimate evil upon the Earth, God's buddy who helps humans learn not to be tempted, a free agent who does great harm, but God does not see fit to reign him in, or in another way? I'm curious if Satan is still blamed for all the evil that takes place on Earth or is there a difference between what Satan does and what plain ole evil humans do?

 

[Francis]

Satan. Created by God perfect and good or evil?

God created sin, evil and iniquity along with all things.

Ephesians 3:8-10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Ezekiel 28:15 (King James Version)
15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
-------------------------
There seems to be something wrong with the logic of these verses.
Was God surprised to find what He had created?
We are told that perfection begets perfection in a never ending line in Math 7 18, yet imperfection in the form of iniquity surfaced in Satan. It must have been put there by God Himself if Eph 3 8 is to be believed.
God is said to have somehow found it but as the creator of all things, He must have created it and placed it within Satan. Presumably to surface and have God find it. It could not have been lost to God so why the Bible uses the word found is perplexing.
We have to believe then that Satan was created exactly as he was meant to be. Perfect as God is only capable of, yet, having evil, sin and iniquity as part of his perfection.
If so, it seems strange that God is later said in scripture to cast Satan into hell.
Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking)epart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
If God gave Satan his nature and Satan followed His God given nature, as he must, then why would God curse His perfect creation seeing as how perfection cannot change to imperfection?
If it can and God is also perfect then that would mean that God could also turn to imperfection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHj0dtSwxqQ

For either God or Satan.

Can you shed some light on this issue?

You should know that I do not have much of a problem with the above because I think more as the Hebrews and Jews think. That being that Satan was never evil and was more of God’s Loyal opposition and that Genesis was not the fall of man but man’s ascension to having a moral sense that comes with the knowledge of good and evil.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat2.htm

Regards
DL

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