Ron Paul: The 13th Floor in a Hotel

[Panacea]

Not just Fox, Partisan. It's all of them. But it's pretty blatant that Murdoch was building his own stable of politicians.

So you agree. That's all I was saying.
Methinks someone likes to argue just to argue...:24:

 

[BadBoy]

I don't want to see another Republican or Democrat as President. It doesn't work, hasn't ever worked and never will work. How many iterations do we have to go through to see the same results?

What this country needs is someone who has business sense. Not another lawyer or politician and certainly not a Doctor. Our government is a business, the biggest, and has been run into the ground. Time for change.

 

[Panacea]

I don't want to see another Republican or Democrat as President. It doesn't work, hasn't ever worked and never will work. How many iterations do we have to go through to see the same results?

What this country needs is someone who has business sense. Not another lawyer or politician and certainly not a Doctor. Our government is a business, the biggest, and has been run into the ground. Time for change.

Ross Perot, is he dead? :24:

In seriousness, I guess the best litmus test of this belief would be the eventual outcome of Michigan with Snyder.

 

[BadBoy]

Ross Perot, is he dead? :24:

In seriousness, I guess the best litmus test of this belief would be the eventual outcome of Michigan with Snyder.

Not really. Michigan is so far gone that nothing is going to save it unless it starts adopting another way to bring people to the state because the auto industry isn't doing it anymore.

No business should be allowed to operate without a balanced budget every year.

 

[Panacea]

Not really. Michigan is so far gone that nothing is going to save it unless it starts adopting another way to bring people to the state because the auto industry isn't doing it anymore.

Rick Snyder is a business minded politician, like what you were calling for. What's "not really" about that? Adopting another way to bring people to the state is one of his main priorities, as he's mentioned. Basically, if he's re-elected and spends some time there, we will see what changes an ideology like that may bring to a struggling economy. Good or bad, and what influences may help or hinder him, idk.

 

[CityGirl]

It doesn't take a businessman to know how to be fiscally responsible.

 

[Tim]

This is what scares the hell out of me when it comes to Rick Snyder and people like him...

While we were venting our outrage at shenanigans in Wisconsin politics, in fact while Republicans were planning last night’s attempted coup, the Michigan state legislature quietly passed a bill giving the Governor of Michigan martial control over the state. Except instead of using actual military, the Governor is more likely to use private security. But make no mistake–rights would be suspended.
Here’s how it works:
The governor, on his own initiative, can declare an economic emergency in any town and appoint an administrator. The administrator can be any person, including a corporate person.
The administrator has the power to do anything in the name of economic stability, including void contracts, void collective bargaining agreements, dissolve the town council, dissolve the school board, fire anyone including elected officials, hire private security, unincorporate the town, and sell off public property.
The people of the town have no say in this. They can neither demand nor turn away the administrator. That is because this provision is meant to be used against the people.
What might constitute an emergency in the Governor’s eyes?
A labor strike is the first thing that comes to mind. Too many foreclosures. Crime! In short, anything he wants it to be–and with billionaire backers, any controversy can be created.
What might the administrator do in that emergency?
First, privatize everything. Fire public workers and take over all public functions–running schools, police and fire service, and so on. Michigan just made this legal.
Second, imprison dissidents, shutter businesses, and seize property by eminent domain. This is not legal, but hey, that didn’t stop the Wisconsin Republicans.
In short, take over control and turn it into a corporate town.
We need to pay attention to Michigan because they are farther along the road to corporate statehood–to where the Republicans want to take all of us.

I'm curious if Michigan is the testing grounds for this, to see if it will work in other parts of the country.

 

[BadBoy]

It doesn't take a businessman to know how to be fiscally responsible.

Outside of Clinton, no other President has been. While I agree with your statement, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Minor Axis]

Outside of Clinton, no other President has been. While I agree with your statement, the proof is in the pudding.

I am shocked you are speaking well of Clinton.

 

[Panacea]

This is what scares the hell out of me when it comes to Rick Snyder and people like him...

​

I'm curious if Michigan is the testing grounds for this, to see if it will work in other parts of the country.

I believe the Detroit Public School system has been taken over by a manager in this manner already, I think you're right about it being a testing ground.

 

[Alien Allen]

This is what scares the hell out of me when it comes to Rick Snyder and people like him...I'm curious if Michigan is the testing grounds for this, to see if it will work in other parts of the country.

I am sure that came from an unbiased source

Maybe from the UAW or one of the unions in Detroit perhaps??

This was whined about ad nauseum. The facts are that he can not just do this on his own but there are triggers that allow it. In other words a city has to show inability to manage itself by certain criteria.

And by the way there already had been cities in MI that had an emergency manager.

As stated Detroit schools has an emergency manager. it should have had one ages ago because the corruption was so thick you could walk on it.

Your democrat talking points don't hold any water Tim. Just more of the scare tactics which both parties use.

 

[Minor Axis]

Most of us have good reasons to be scared.

 

[Alien Allen]

Most of us have good reasons to be scared.

And they count on it

Fear is not an option

You sissy

 

[Tim]

I am sure that came from an unbiased source

Maybe from the UAW or one of the unions in Detroit perhaps??

This was whined about ad nauseum. The facts are that he can not just do this on his own but there are triggers that allow it. In other words a city has to show inability to manage itself by certain criteria.

And by the way there already had been cities in MI that had an emergency manager.

As stated Detroit schools has an emergency manager. it should have had one ages ago because the corruption was so thick you could walk on it.

Your democrat talking points don't hold any water Tim. Just more of the scare tactics which both parties use.

Well since you believe that those assertions are biased, then read the bill that was passed into law for yourself as I did. It won't take more than 30-40 minutes... Then you can show me where my prior post is incorrect. Until then, you are only putting out the republican talking points.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billengrossed/House/htm/2011-HEBH-4214.htm

 

[Alien Allen]

Well since you believe that those assertions are biased, then read the bill that was passed into law for yourself as I did. It won't take more than 30-40 minutes... Then you can show me where my prior post is incorrect. Until then, you are only putting out the republican talking points.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billengrossed/House/htm/2011-HEBH-4214.htm

(3) If a finding of probable financial stress is made for a
municipal government under subsection (2), the governor shall

appoint a review team for that municipal government consisting of

the state treasurer or his or her designee, the director of the

department of technology, management, and budget or his or her

designee, a nominee of the senate majority leader, and a nominee of

the speaker of the house of representatives. The governor may

appoint other state officials or other persons with relevant

professional experience to serve on a review team to undertake a

municipal financial management review.

show me how this is all controlled by the governor and show me where he alone determines a review

admit it

you did not read the bill

 

[Minor Axis]

And they count on it

Fear is not an option

You sissy

Head buried in sand appears to be the option of choice for some of us... until your arse gets wacked.

 

[Alien Allen]

3) A local government for which a financial emergency
determination under this section has been confirmed to exist may,

by resolution adopted by a vote of 2/3 of the members of its


governing body elected and serving, appeal this determination to

the Ingham county circuit court.

more later on which is another safeguard

 

[Alien Allen]

you guys are worried about what happens IF an emergency manager is appointed

you are missing the point that if it reached that point it was determined necessary

the whole point of the law was to provide guidelines for when a EM can be appointed. It was a gray area until now in MI

Admit it you just are afraid the union perks will get whacked

 

[Tim]

show me how this is all controlled by the governor and show me where he alone determines a review

admit it

you did not read the bill

Yes, I did read the bill... Section 12 lays out the triggers, all 24 of them a-r

Sec. 12. (1) The state financial authority of a local government may conduct a preliminary review to determine the
existence of a local government financial problem if 1 or more of
the following occur:

(a) The governing body or the chief administrative officer of
a local government requests a preliminary review under this act.
The request shall be in writing and shall identify the existing or
anticipated financial conditions or events that make the request
necessary.

(b) The state financial authority receives a written request
from a creditor with an undisputed claim that remains unpaid 6
months after its due date against the local government that exceeds
the greater of $10,000.00 or 1% of the annual general fund budget
of the local government, provided that the creditor notifies the
local government in writing at least 30 days before his or her
request to the state financial authority of his or her intention to
submit a written request under this subdivision.

(c) The state financial authority receives a petition
containing specific allegations of local government financial
distress signed by a number of registered electors residing within
the local government's jurisdiction equal to not less than 5% of
the total vote cast for all candidates for governor within the
local government's jurisdiction at the last preceding election at
which a governor was elected. Petitions shall not be filed under
this subdivision within 60 days before any election of the local
government.

(d) The state financial authority receives written
notification that a local government has not timely deposited its
minimum obligation payment to the local government pension fund as
required by law.

(e) The state financial authority receives written
notification that the local government has failed for a period of 7
days or more after the scheduled date of payment to pay wages and
salaries or other compensation owed to employees or benefits owed

to retirees.

(f) The state financial authority receives written
notification from a trustee, paying agent, bondholder, or auditor
engaged by the local government of a default in a bond or note
payment or a violation of 1 or more bond or note covenants.

(g) The state financial authority of a local government
receives a resolution from either the senate or the house of
representatives requesting a preliminary review under this section.

(h) The local government has violated a requirement of, or a
condition of an order issued pursuant to, former 1943 PA 202, the
revenue bond act of 1933, 1933 PA 94, MCL 141.101 to 141.140, the
revised municipal finance act, 2001 PA 34, MCL 141.2101 to
141.2821, or any other law governing the issuance of bonds or
notes.

(i) A municipal government has violated the conditions of an
order issued by the local emergency financial assistance loan board
pursuant to the emergency municipal loan act, 1980 PA 243, MCL
141.931 to 141.942.

(j) The local government has violated a requirement of
sections 17 to 20 of the uniform budgeting and accounting act, 1968
PA 2, MCL 141.437 to 141.440.

(k) The local government fails to timely file an annual
financial report or audit that conforms with the minimum procedures
and standards of the state financial authority and is required for
local governments under the uniform budgeting and accounting act,
1968 PA 2, MCL 141.421 to 141.440a, or 1919 PA 71, MCL 21.41 to
21.55. In addition, if the local government is a school district,


House Bill No. 4214 (H-2) as amended February 22, 2011 the school district fails to provide an annual financial report or
audit that conforms with the minimum procedures and standards of
the superintendent of public instruction and is required under the
revised school code, 1976 PA 451, MCL 380.1 to 380.1852, and the
state school aid act of 1979, 1979 PA 94, MCL 388.1601 to 388.1772.

(l) A municipal government is delinquent in the distribution of
tax revenues, as required by law, that it has collected for another
taxing jurisdiction, and that taxing jurisdiction requests a
preliminary review.

(m) A local government is in breach of its obligations under a
deficit elimination plan or an agreement entered into pursuant to a
deficit elimination plan.

(n) A court has ordered an additional tax levy without the
prior approval of the governing body of the local government.

(o) A municipal government has ended a fiscal year in a
deficit condition as defined in section 21 of the Glenn Steil state
revenue sharing act of 1971, 1971 PA 140, MCL 141.921, or has
failed to comply with the requirements of that section for filing
or instituting a financial plan to correct the deficit condition.

(p) A school district ended its most recently completed fiscal
year with a deficit in 1 or more of its funds and the school
district has not submitted a deficit elimination plan to the state
financial authority within [30 days] after the district's deadline
for submission of its annual financial statement.

(q) A local government has been assigned a long-term debt
rating within or below the BBB category or its equivalent by 1 or
more nationally recognized credit rating agencies.


(r) The existence of other facts or circumstances that in the
state treasurer's sole discretion for a municipal government are
indicative of municipal financial stress, or, that in the
superintendent of public instruction's sole discretion for a school
district are indicative of school district financial stress.

Looks there are many different gray areas to be exploited here.

 

[Tim]

Hell, just look at (r) alone, forget about the rest.

(r) The existence of other facts or circumstances that in the
state treasurer's sole discretion for a municipal government are
indicative of municipal financial stress, or, that in the
superintendent of public instruction's sole discretion for a school
district are indicative of school district financial stress.

With this trigger in place, they can go into any town or municipality and do whatever they want.