Religious People - Ignorant, Deluded Or Just Stupid

[Panic]

Let me remind you that Catholics are not Christians. They call themselves Christians, but their actions (as you and others have explained in this thread) are far from their words.

Specifically, what actions are you talking about?

 

[Tim]

... but any true Christian will try their best to not harm others, not steal, not torture others for their beliefs, etc.

Yet you have absolutely no problem with rounding up suspected terrorists (please note the emphasis on "suspected") and locking them up until you feel safe? Or does 9/11 make it ok to do that?

 

[SgtSpike]

Specifically, what actions are you talking about?

Genocide, pedophiles, whatever they call those fees for the priest to forgive your sins, praying to and worshiping the saints, taking the word of the pope above the Word of God. None of these things are Christian.

Yet you have absolutely no problem with rounding up suspected terrorists (please note the emphasis on "suspected") and locking them up until you feel safe? Or does 9/11 make it ok to do that?

Not really. I see it as preventing harm to other people. If we didn't do that, the blood of others could be on our hands, should another terrorist attack happen because we didn't lock them up.

It's sad and really awful that we have to take those sorts of precautions, but we do, or we're just putting ourselves at more risk.

 

[Ryder]

Just a few thoughts.

It’s easier to believe in a magical super-being either just popping into existence or always existing than it is to believe that creatures changed & evolved over three & a half billion years into our current flora & fauna.

Why would you want to join a group that does not want you as a member? If you are gay & the current religious groups don’t want you – start your own, “The Church Of People Who Love God & Each Other”. It has worked for many other people up to now, John Smith, King Henry VIII, L Ron Hubbard… etc

If you call your invisible friend Harvey, or Frank, you will be locked up in a padded cell, but if you call him God, people will sing along with you on Sundays & help you to become President of the country.

The Catholic Church is the richest organization in the world, making much of it’s money through slavery, piracy, theft & not to forget taking the land & holdings of all the people that were tortured during the Inquisitions & yet we give them tax breaks. The Mafia gets most of its money in similar ways & we don’t give them tax breaks.

No religious organization in the world that believes in God or Gods can prove their claims in a court of law & yet they are some of the most powerful organizations on the planet.

God doesn’t seem to give a shit about the two million children currently dying of AIDS/HIV in Africa, but he’s only too happy to bless the food you are about to eat & help Johnny through tomorrow’s pop quiz.

Religion is something different people of the world believe in, I'm personally a Catholic and I believe strongly in God. I wear a Jesus fish necklace every day and pray holding it like the roseray and I love that I can turn to prayers if I need too.

 

[sharpies]

Reading some of these replies makes me worry even more. When we talk about the actions of some of these religious groups & then make statements like "other people do it too" or "And lots of other crooks outside of religous circles taking money from the government as well. Welcome to America.", I truly worry.

These religious groups are supposed to hold themselves up to a "higher power" which means that either there are a lot of religious groups that consist of believers who don't care about their gods judgement or there are a lot of people in religious groups who join so that they can hide behind the doctrine & conduct unlawful activity. Either way this does not bode well for religious groups.

Allan

 

[Panic]

Genocide, pedophiles, whatever they call those fees for the priest to forgive your sins, praying to and worshiping the saints, taking the word of the pope above the Word of God. None of these things are Christian.

Yeah, because all Catholics advocate genocide and protect pedophiles. (rolls eyes)

Reading some of these replies makes me worry even more. When we talk about the actions of some of these religious groups & then make statements like "other people do it too" or "And lots of other crooks outside of religous circles taking money from the government as well. Welcome to America.", I truly worry.

I don't blame you for worrying. Tis a sad state of affairs. But there is goodness in the world as well as evil...and that's what keeps me sane. For every parasite that takes advantage of how religion can serve them...there are genuinely good people who use religion (whether God exists or not) as a guideline for peaceful living and faith that gives them inner strength and promotes their well being....if it works for them, I say there's no harm.

These religious groups are supposed to hold themselves up to a "higher power"

Well of course they are supposed to hold themselves up to a higher power, but cops, judges, and doctors, for example, are all supposed to protect and serve the general public too but there are criminal elements abound in law enforcement and the medical profession. Just because one is religious doesn't make him the end all and be all of some holy hierarchy.....they are prone to corruption just like anyone else. They're only supposed to worship God, but don't get it twisted, they are not God himself.

 

[sharpies]

---Quote (Originally by sharpies)---
These religious groups are supposed to hold themselves up to a "higher power"
---End Quote---
Well of course they are supposed to hold themselves up to a higher power, but cops, judges, and doctors, for example, are all supposed to protect and serve the general public too

I think that what I am trying to say is that when a corrupt religious leader goes bad, they are sometimes out of reach of the normal laws that would apply to cops, judges... etc.

Look at what happened in Jonestown & Waco, as well as a whole lot of other sad events that can be attributed to religion. No corrupt judge is going to convince 500, or 1000, or 5 million people that they are aliens or that they need to get rid of their earthly bodies, or that the word of god can heal the sick.

These things are going on all the time & it's strikes me as odd that everyone turns on me, & other atheists, for saying that we are worried & pissed off with the state of things when they should be turning to the religious groups that they belong to & insisting on accountability.

Allan

 

[Minor Axis]

I'll give you one of the wealthiest religions - even wealthiest religion. As far as their practices with regard to earning methods, that's another story that I can't really comment on.

Did I miss something, which religion are you referring to?

 

[Minor Axis]

Not really. I see it as preventing harm to other people. If we didn't do that, the blood of others could be on our hands, should another terrorist attack happen because we didn't lock them up.

It's sad and really awful that we have to take those sorts of precautions, but we do, or we're just putting ourselves at more risk.

You completely missed the point. To illustrate, I really hope for the next round up, they grab you so you can squirm for the next 20 years trying to prove , with or without representation, why you're innocent. You are just an individual and the security of the state trumps your individual freedoms. Is that the country you want to live in? :smiley24: Btw, I'm not saying they are a bunch of good people in Guantanamo. It's a principle that is being argued here.

 

[Panic]

I think that what I am trying to say is that when a corrupt religious leader goes bad, they are sometimes out of reach of the normal laws that would apply to cops, judges... etc.
Look at what happened in Jonestown & Waco, as well as a whole lot of other sad events that can be attributed to religion.

Well, if that's true, I agree with you. If there are legal loopholes that religious criminals can slip through, they need to be amended. There are a lot of desperate, spiritually lost people in this world. Those people are the exact types religious predators prey on. (or "pray" on, if you'll pardon the pun.)

These things are going on all the time & it's strikes me as odd that everyone turns on me, & other atheists, for saying that we are worried & pissed off with the state of things when they should be turning to the religious groups that they belong to & insisting on accountability.

I agree, it's creepy that the church ever protected child molesters, that is just as perverse as the crime itself.
But I didn't realize anyone turns on atheists or anyone else about that, I think everyone would and should cry foul against sexual predators in church.

I do realize there is an seedy underbelly thriving in the religious realm and it's detestable. But I don't think non-atheists would disagree with that. I would think believers are just as outraged as atheists are. If they're not, they should be.

 

[SgtSpike]

Yeah, because all Catholics advocate genocide and protect pedophiles. (rolls eyes)

Maybe not, but these sorts of things haven't happened in the Christian church, and I think that's mainly because of the corruption in the Catholic church brought on by things like looking to the Pope for answers when you should be looking to the Bible, and paying the priest to forgive your sins. If those things are corruption of the Christian faith, I don't know what is.

Since you're Catholic though, I want to ask you... what you have to do to get into heaven?

I think that what I am trying to say is that when a corrupt religious leader goes bad, they are sometimes out of reach of the normal laws that would apply to cops, judges... etc.

Look at what happened in Jonestown & Waco, as well as a whole lot of other sad events that can be attributed to religion. No corrupt judge is going to convince 500, or 1000, or 5 million people that they are aliens or that they need to get rid of their earthly bodies, or that the word of god can heal the sick.

These things are going on all the time & it's strikes me as odd that everyone turns on me, & other atheists, for saying that we are worried & pissed off with the state of things when they should be turning to the religious groups that they belong to & insisting on accountability.

Allan

I completely agree with you. If anything, there should be a much larger cry about a corrupt priest or pastor in a religious community, because they should be held to a higher standard.

You completely missed the point. To illustrate, I really hope for the next round up, they grab you so you can squirm for the next 20 years trying to prove , with or without representation, why you're innocent. You are just an individual and the security of the state trumps your individual freedoms. Is that the country you want to live in? :smiley24: Btw, I'm not saying they are a bunch of good people in Guantanamo. It's a principle that is being argued here.

Yes, that is the country I want to live in. I believe in the military leaders heading up Guantanamo and elsewhere, that they wouldn't needlessly detain people unless they were seen as a probable threat to this country. I have no problem with probable threats being detained, and that is exactly what they were doing.

 

[flipx]

I completely agree with you Sharpies. I am a proud Atheist, you could say. Religion has brought on so many wars, and innocent deaths, and has ******d the most money out of anything else on this planet. And for what?

George Carling has never spoken more truer words:

YouTube - George Carlin - Religion is bullshit.

This man was a true legend, and spoke the complete truth in my opinion. R.I.P George.

EDIT: Why is the word 's p o n g e d' being censored? =/

 

[Peter Parka]

EDIT: Why is the word 's p o n g e d' being censored? =/

It's because it stops a bunch of dickheads who are hellbent on spamming this forum.

 

[flipx]

It's because it stops a bunch of dickheads who are hellbent on spamming this forum.

Censoring the word 's p o n g e' stops them from spamming the forum? How does that work? lol

 

[Peter Parka]

Censoring the word 's p o n g e' stops them from spamming the forum? How does that work? lol

Lets just say the stupid site they continually try to advertise contains a certain word.

 

[flipx]

Lets just say the stupid site they continually try to advertise contains a certain word.

I see, I see. Is it not just easier to ban/ip ban each spammer that posts, rather than eliminating a word for everyone else as well?

 

[Peter Parka]

I see, I see. Is it not just easier to ban/ip ban each spammer that posts, rather than eliminating a word for everyone else as well?

I'm not a mod but it was so regular at one point, I'd guess this discorages them so the admin dont have to keep clicking through a load of IPs and banning them, especially when some people use rolling IPs.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Hey Parka, you've done a great job explaining the issue with the forum of cellulose abosrbency :24:

Now everyone needs to get back on topic .

Much love

 

[USF Sam]

My only concern with religion are those people that mindlessly follow in the steps of their fore bearers.

The mere notion of "God said it. I believe it. That settles it." sends a chill down my spine because, in most cases, it wasn't GOD that "said" it, but their parents. They were raised Catholic, Muslim, Hindu or worshiping Spanky the Snake God and to them that is the unquestioned, undeniable TRUTH. They just cannot wrap their brains around the concept that they MIGHT be... wrong.

I was raised a Baptist, went to a Methodist high school and got my BA from a Catholic university. I've also studied Wicca and Judaism. I guess it's an occupational hazard, but I have a compulsion to collect as much information as possible before making an important decision. When I came to my decision as to where I stand it was based on reasoned thought. I can follow the thought-trail back to it's beginnings, examine each step and be comfortable that I didn't lightly take anything for granted.

For the record, I don't believe in the Big Beard in the Sky. I believe that the Bible and the Torah and the Koran were written by man as a guide for living. What may have started out as parables or fables grew into "history" at some point. Who knows.

I live in the Bible belt. On my car there is a bumper sticker that sums up my feelings about that:

"Dear Lord. Please keep me safe from your followers. Amen."

 

[dkwrtw]

I don't put any more stock into Science than I do religion, saying that in the beginning there was absolutely nothing and then for no reason there is an explosion and out of said explosion came the universe really doesn't make much more sense than some magical being creating us out of Boredom.