Reagan Killed the Middle Class 30 Years Ago

[pjbleek]

Okay, I went to a community college from 1992-1997 and tution was $2100 (including books)
then went to a state school for one year $6000/year financial aid, which I had to pay back after dropping out after one year
went back to school (state school again) in January of 2009 ($3100/semester) so all told its going to be a lot of cash!!!
but still the schools in this state are insane:Harvard,Tufts,MIT, etc the price keeps going up....

I did get my associate's degree in 1997 (I was 27)

 

[Panacea]

On average, an undergraduate degree leaves someone with $25,000 in federal loan debt. That includes people who have college paid for them, or get grants and don't owe any money...so I'm guessing plenty of people rack up 50k in loan debt without being a piece of shit. :dunno

Luckily, I went to a decent college with relatively low cost tuition. The smart thing was to go to community college as long as possible and finish out in a University, but noooo I was too good for community college fail

 

[Johnfromokc]

Who's going into $50,000 debt to get a degree? The kid who doesn't know what he wants to do, so he spends all of his parents money at some expensive liberal arts college for 5 years?

Where have you been the last 10 years? Tune in to Dave Ramseys radio show and listen for 30 minutes and odds are someone will call in with $10K to $100K in student loan debt.

I never said that trickle down economics worked. My intent was just to point out that Carter was hardly any better than Reagan.

And what did I say? I challenged anyone to show Reagan was any better than Carter. Still waiting.

It's sorta funny how you criticize Reagan when Carter implemented policies that are traditionally of a Republican nature.

And what policies would those be? Be specific.

Also, google "1979 Oil Crisis" and see what you learn. While you're at it, Google "Iranian Hostage Crisis."

I lived through it, no need for me to look it up. I also lived through the 1973 Nixon "oil crisis". I remember gas lines and rationing during Nixon. There were no lines or rationing in 1979.

I also lost 241 Brothers-in-Arms, 220 of them fellow Marines in 1983 in the Beirut Barracks Bombing. Look THAT up. What did Saint Ronnie do? He tucked tail and ran. No payback, no response at all. He showed the Muslim world that he had no resolve and gave the impression that Americans could not stomach such attacks. From that point on, terrorist attacks sky-rocketed around the world, and for the most part, Reagan did little to stop it. He did order a bomb dropped on Mummar Gaddafi's and killed his daughter in 1986, warrior president that he was.

Of course there's no correlation there, huh?

You think getting 1% interest on a 5 year CD is a good thing? You think an ever shrinking middle class is a good thing? You think decreasing wages is a good thing?

You libertarians have an interesting economic thought process. You must have attended public school. :24:

 

[Accountable]

term limits do NOT work

Michigan is proof positive of that

we need public financed elections so money influence is diminished

We need to reduce government to the point that it would not be so financially profitable to purchase politicians.

 

[Kyle B]

Actually $50,000 might get you an associates degree at an average university. A lady I work with is spending $25,000 a year for her daughter to go to Ohio University. And she's not rich by any means. If you want a bachelor's degree from a university you're looking at at least $100,000 in loans for your average family. For the middle class there is no way they can afford to put their kid through for 5 years for a liberal arts degree that means nothing.

In an adult studies program at a no name college you're looking at $60,000 for a bachelors.

And even better, degrees are now starting to be a requirement for any decent job. Hell even customer service positions are now starting to require an associates in business.

Pretty soon there's going to be no middle class because they're going to be unable to pay for the mountain of debt they have to have to stay in the middle class.

$50,000 for an Associates degree?!?!?! :eek

I received mine from the SUNY system for $6,000.

It's interesting how so many positions that used to not demand a degree now require them. It's understandable though, given that so many people have degrees.

 

[satinbutterfly]

$50,000 for an Associates degree?!?!?! :eek

I received mine from the SUNY system for $6,000.

It's interesting how so many positions that used to not demand a degree now require them. It's understandable though, given that so many people have degrees.

University of Cincinnati is currently $25,000 a year. :nod:

Community colleges are anywhere between $5-10,000 a year. However, if you work in Cincinnati, a degree from Xavier or UC is looked at in a lot better light than a no name adult studies/community college. In fact, I would say at least 50% of the managers where I work went to Xavier.

 

[Kyle B]

Where have you been the last 10 years? Tune in to Dave Ramseys radio show and listen for 30 minutes and odds are someone will call in with $10K to $100K in student loan debt.

When you go to college there's a huge chance you're going to accumulate at least some debt. However, the difference in accumulating $25k in debt as opposed to $100k is up to you. [/Quote]

And what policies would those be? Be specific.

Deregulation and cutting back on spending for social programs.

 

[Kyle B]

University of Cincinnati is currently $25,000 a year. :nod:

Community colleges are anywhere between $5-10,000 a year. However, if you work in Cincinnati, a degree from Xavier or UC is looked at in a lot better light than a no name adult studies/community college. In fact, I would say at least 50% of the managers where I work went to Xavier.

Wow.

Tuition at SUNY Geneseo, considered one of the best schools in the state system is $5,200 a year.

A degree from a top SUNY school is looked upon much higher than some degree from a no name expensive private institution, which happen to be a dime a dozen.

 

[satinbutterfly]

Wow.

Tuition at SUNY Geneseo, considered one of the best schools in the state system is $5,200 a year.

A degree from a top SUNY school is looked upon much higher than some degree from a no name expensive private institution, which happen to be a dime a dozen.

I'm so jealous.

 

[retro]

University of Cincinnati is currently $25,000 a year. :nod:

If you're from out of state...

http://www.uc.edu/af/bursar/fees/2011-2012.html

It's about $10k if you're an Ohio resident... depending on your area of study.

 

[Panacea]

The lower end universities in Michigan are like 8k per year

 

[Johnfromokc]

When you go to college there's a huge chance you're going to accumulate at least some debt.

I find it sad that we so readily accept that a young person should expect to start their life after college in debt.

However, the difference in accumulating $25k in debt as opposed to $100k is up to you.

Any idea what a law degree costs today?

Deregulation and cutting back on spending for social programs.

What social program spending did Carter cut? What specifically did Carter deregulate?

Back to tuition. The University of Oklahoma charges $7,854 for 30 hours of classes for Oklahoma residents and $18,285 for non residents. OU Law School charges an additional $567 per credit hour. OU requires 122 credit hours for a BBA. That's over $32,000 for an Oklahoma resident, excluding books and their numerous and sundry additional fees, AND assuming you pass 100% of your classes the first time around with no take-overs.

Add a Juris Doctor to that BBA for only $51,030 - That's $82,030 total. What a bargain!

For a non-resident, that BBA would cost $75,000. Non-residents will be well over $100,000 for a law degree.

Here's the link to the OU Bursar:

https://bursar.ou.edu/tuition_fees.cfm

Gawd bless Amurka and trickle down economics! Keeping the middle class down and in debt since 1980.

 

[Alien Allen]

The lower end universities in Michigan are like 8k per year

You have to take into account board and room if you go away

Less than 10 years ago that would have included the board and room

I paid over 4 grand for 3 fricking online summer classes at a major STATE college earlier this year

I think it was 3 classes

might have even been only 2

college is just an absurd money machine now. They make you take classes that have nothing to do with your desired vocation.

makes me wanna puke

 

[Kyle B]

I find it sad that we so readily accept that a young person should expect to start their life after college in debt.




Any idea what a law degree costs today?




What social program spending did Carter cut? What specifically did Carter deregulate?

Back to tuition. The University of Oklahoma charges $7,854 for 30 hours of classes for Oklahoma residents and $18,285 for non residents. OU Law School charges an additional $567 per credit hour. OU requires 122 credit hours for a BBA. That's over $32,000 for an Oklahoma resident, excluding books and their numerous and sundry additional fees, AND assuming you pass 100% of your classes the first time around with no take-overs.

Add a Juris Doctor to that BBA for only $51,030 - That's $82,030 total. What a bargain!

For a non-resident, that BBA would cost $75,000. Non-residents will be well over $100,000 for a law degree.

Here's the link to the OU Bursar:

https://bursar.ou.edu/tuition_fees.cfm

Gawd bless Amurka and trickle down economics! Keeping the middle class down and in debt since 1980.

Who said you have to become a lawyer? Degrees that take longer to complete and yield higher returns are going to cost more.

Many degree programs in state schools cost considerably less.

College is expensive no doubt, and it's sad that some kids come out of school with tons of debt. But lots of students also don't end school with a mountain of debt. It's about personal choice.

Carter deregulated sections of the transportation industry in hopes that it would improve commerce. He also cut back social programs for the poor and increased military spending. So yea, at least he did something during the cold war.

 

[retro]

Who said you have to become a lawyer? Degrees that take longer to complete and yield higher returns are going to cost more.

Johnnyboy was the only one that mentioned anything about a law degree... the original premise of the education argument was simply a college degree. But changing that into a law degree allows for sensationalism to get his point across. It's also known as a..... wait for it.... red herring.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Who said you have to become a lawyer? Degrees that take longer to complete and yield higher returns are going to cost more.

You missed the $32,000 BBA. The law degree was added for emphasis. Have you looked at employment prospects for lawyers for the next 5 years?

You can get an Associates in HVACR Technology from OSU for $12,150 + books, tools and all associated fees.

http://www.osuit.edu/admissions/tuition_and_fees.html

And what point are you trying to make anyway? That it's a good thing to be in deep debt right out of college even before you get your first real job?

vMany degree programs in state schools cost considerably less.

List some for us with links please.

College is expensive no doubt, and it's sad that some kids come out of school with tons of debt. But lots of students also don't end school with a mountain of debt. It's about personal choice.

I agree it can be done without debt, especially if mom and dad pay for it. Ever done the math of trying to pay tuition while working a minimum wage job?

Tell me, how did you pay for your college Kyle?

Carter deregulated sections of the transportation industry in hopes that it would improve commerce. He also cut back social programs for the poor and increased military spending. So yea, at least he did something during the cold war.

Yes, deregulation of the transportation sector did start during Carter's administration, which was begun by Nixon & Ford. Seems you conservative types would like that. I'm not so sure about what social programs Carter cut though. He might have supported some cuts in housing subsidies, but I think he held the line on spending instead of raising it. Only to congress would not increasing spending be defined as a cut, and not cutting spending called an increase. Military spending went up every year under every president in the Cold War. We can all agree Reagan outspent Carter militarily.

Point: Reagan did more economic damage to this nation than Carter even came close to. We are still suffering from trickle down economics to this day, as is evidenced by low wages and our shrinking middle class.

Johnnyboy was the only one that mentioned anything about a law degree... the original premise of the education argument was simply a college degree. But changing that into a law degree allows for sensationalism to get his point across. It's also known as a..... wait for it.... red herring.

And there's retro-twinky-boy from the peanut gallery adding his usual overly repeated talk radio verbiage.

You have anything of substance to add to this thread or are you just trolling again?

So how did you pay for your college retro-boy? Work at the Stop & Go? Fast food? Wait tables? Or did doctor daddy pay for it?

 

[cam elle toe]

Here, you dont have to start paying off your HECS (Student loan there) debt until you are earning over around 45 grand a year.

I've had my debt for over 10 years, and will probably never earn enough to have to pay it off....shame about that

 

[retro]

And there's retro-twinky-boy from the peanut gallery adding his usual overly repeated talk radio verbiage.

You have anything of substance to add to this thread or are you just trolling again?

So how did you pay for your college retro-boy? Work at the Stop & Go? Fast food? Wait tables? Or did doctor daddy pay for it?

Not entirely certain what "talk radio verbiage" I added. I was a debater in high school, and I regularly tore red herring statements (like yours) apart. I've also provided substance to this thread in the form of facts, but those are regularly ignored.

I've paid for my own school so far in my life, but thanks for that. I haven't graduated college at this point because of that reason and because I got married very young.

Typical though, you can't refute what I say, so you resort to your typical personal attacks. Your predictability would border on the comical if it weren't so completely pathetic. Also, don't ever use a gay descriptor as a pejorative against me again.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Not entirely certain what "talk radio verbiage" I added. I was a debater in high school, and I regularly tore red herring statements (like yours) apart. I've also provided substance to this thread in the form of facts, but those are regularly ignored.

Actually your "substance" is regularly disproven yet still repeated by you. That does not a winning debate make. Repeating words like "red herring" "ad hominem" and "non sequitur" makes you sound like a little kid that just learned a new word and can't help but repeat it ad nauseum. <<<<<New word for ya.

I've paid for my own school so far in my life, but thanks for that. I haven't graduated college at this point because of that reason and because I got married very young.

All eye-poking and verbal jabbing aside, I wish you the best in completeing your education as a single parent and working full time. I do know how challenging that can be. :thumbup

Typical though, you can't refute what I say, so you resort to your typical personal attacks. Your predictability would border on the comical if it weren't so completely pathetic. Also, don't ever use a gay descriptor as a pejorative against me again.

Pejorative, lol....nice new word. Don't wear it out. What's wrong retro? Latent homosexuality issues? That's cool bro. Live and let live.

Tell ya what retro - you address me as John, and not Johnny boy and I won't address you as little retro twinky boy. We might actually have some civil discourse if you like. Ball's in your court.

 

[retro]

Actually your "substance" is regularly disproven yet still repeated by you. That does not a winning debate make. Repeating words like "red herring" "ad hominem" and "non sequitur" makes you sound like a little kid that just learned a new word and can't help but repeat it ad nauseum. <<<<<New word for ya.

I use the words that I do when they're appropriate. There are plenty of more convoluted ways of saying "red herring, "ad hominem", or any other... but they're the most appropriate for the given situation, so I use them. Not my fault that you're incapable of dealing with that. :dunno

And I've used ad nauseum around here as well... though I generally go with ad infinitum, which is appropriate with a whole helluva lot of the shit that you spew.

I've provided figures in this thread regarding education costs... not m fault you haven't bothered reading. It's rather pathetic on your part that rather than trying to refute what people say, you go after the way they phrased their statement. :24:

Pejorative, lol....nice new word. Don't wear it out. What's wrong retro? Latent homosexuality issues? That's cool bro. Live and let live.

Tell ya what retro - you address me as John, and not Johnny boy and I won't address you as little retro twinky boy. We might actually have some civil discourse if you like. Ball's in your court.

I'll address you as Johnnyboy if I feel like it... and there's a huge difference between that and using homosexuality as a pejorative. I don't have latent homosexuality issues (but there you go again, attempting to use homosexuality as an insult)... I just find it incredibly offensive for someone to use homosexuality as an attack. Slurs are just that... slurs, and they're inappropriate regardless. So, don't do it again.