GraceAbounds
Well-Known Member
I'd think you'd need to make another thread since it has nothing to do with creationism.
Prove to me creationism is real
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I'd think you'd need to make another thread since it has nothing to do with creationism.
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GraceAbounds
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All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
gah.....all of what you just described it the irreducible complexity argument put forth by Behe, which he now recants because he knows it isn't right.I guess perhaps it's more idealism than anything else, not even close to science.
But I look at the harmony, the basic materpeice around us an cannot help but wonder.
You already know that I do partly go with the evolution model, I have told you that already. However, when it comes to the creation of the universe(s) it is absolute fact, that there are unexplained incident's that didn't happen by mistake, that does not mean divine inetervention I know, but it does mean "un-known".
At the end of the day, I am not really sure why it matters sooo much to the evolution gang, or the creationlist gang who's right and who's wrong. Why both sides cannot let the other one have their collective head's. Basically if you proved evolution beyond the shadow of doubt, so. What does that mean?
It is just imposssible for me to believe, seeing the marvel's of human accompishment's, my children being born, sound, sight, smell that we are not the handiwork of an intelligent being. That is just me. It is an ineer struggle with me mind you, because the scientific brain wants badly to explain everything, to embrace some sort of idea that will uncover mystery, then there is the childlike side, that just sits in awe and really doesn't care how it happened, I just marvel at the fact that we are here sharing space.
Here is my concern, however we got here, here we are.
Now what are we going to do about it....
[/Philosopher Off]
I am for the most part done, I am perplexed to be honest, I do not like debate souly for the reason that I appreciate hearing and seeing others ideas too much to squash them, or make them look insignificant.
I take a backseat to Scott, I prefer to be in harmony and watch you two go at it
Knowing deep down inside, that you two, like it or not, share an immense amount of respect and admiration for each other.
As do I.
Please please please read this:
Irreducible Complexity and Michael Behe on Intelligent Design
also, this handy video made by a scientist:
YouTube - The Evolution of Irreducible Complexity
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Do you believe in the global flood?
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
Thank you the Debbie. You can create<----get it?..."create" some curry for me. Loves the curry. yummy.
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
No fair AEF. No fair.
But since you want to play dirty......
What is the Matrix?
Prove it.
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
I don't see how that isn't fair. She says science doesn't conflict with religion, but it certainly conflicts with a global flood.
only if you are a fundamentalist and take the bible literally.not all of us are looneys you know.
the known world was flooded ,which is what the flood story describes.i also think it is more than just a history
it is expressed in mythical form and is found in hindu,ancient egyption and chinese religion as well as notably in judaism and christianity.
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
I know that.
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
IntruderLS1
Active Member
I do.
I can never get either side of this debate... It seems like so many talk about this or that and never get to any real substance. Nothing more than sparring of words and wills. I'll put my thoughts out there for all of you to dissect and/or ponder.
Big Bang? Well, I honestly don't know. I do know some of the greatest minds out there still grapple with exactly how the universe came to be and I'm not as smart as they are
So I will let them come up with the theories and I will continue to read them to see what makes sense to me. For me, I really don't care how it all started. I would love to know, but there is SOO much more to learn about our physical universe that I'm not sure we will ever know in my lifetime. And I'm ok with that fact.
Creation? I put this under the category of superstition and folklore. I truly believe in evolution and life as we know it starting from a "primordial soup" The physical evidence is overwhelming IMHO. There are too many pieces of the puzzle that I would have to ignore to assume that one day man wasn't there and the next day he was.
Religion? From which the story of creation comes from... Well that goes back to when man became aware of his own mortality. When we as a species became self aware and were able to ask the tough questions. At that point in time, as we grew and developed, so did our questions to our physical world and inner self. They were tough questions that we were not in any kind of position to answer. So we developed stories to explain the unexplainable. When lighting came from the heavens, we didn't know the science behind it, so we said that it came from the gods. When the sun was blotted out by a solar eclipse, we "Knew" that once again the gods were doing it. As far back as written history goes we see explanations to our physical universe as being divine occurrences, yet today, through science, we know otherwise.
Take any given century and you can find beliefs that were abandoned the following century because science has proven otherwise. Some take longer, but the basic formula is... We don't have an answer to something, we make up a story to fit the situation, then we discover the science behind it and move away from the story. I'll give you an example, but if you look you will see that history are filled with these stories in all different variations.
In our not so distant past, the earth was known to be flat. It was so believed because of limited means of travel and communication. It was heresy to think/say otherwise. There were some that held different views to the greater teaching/belief, but it wasn't until centuries later that we knew through exploration and science that the earth is spherical. The belief was changed because for the simple fact that it was a provable fact.
You can take the above example and use it on just about every ancient belief. Why? Because we have progressed in our knowledge and intellect. Now over time, some of these stories were repeated generation over generation being refined and perfected. They became what we know as religion. They turned into rules, laws and punishment helping mankind progress as a species. There was a need for order, law, organization and a belief in a higher power to keep us in line. Religion filled this void for us, it gave us a reason and it helped shape who we are as a people. For this, I am grateful for what the worlds religions haven given us. But we must understand them for what they are, stories and folklore.
This can also be applied to todays scientist and those who hold fast that there is a God. The same way our ancient relatives looked at lightning as a bolt from the gods, we look at how complex life is and say the same thing. Future generations will look back at this time and wonder how we ever made it... they will have the knowledge that we do not posses now.
I will finish my thoughts later... I must go to dinner with the wife
Big Bang? Well, I honestly don't know. I do know some of the greatest minds out there still grapple with exactly how the universe came to be and I'm not as smart as they are
So I will let them come up with the theories and I will continue to read them to see what makes sense to me. For me, I really don't care how it all started. I would love to know, but there is SOO much more to learn about our physical universe that I'm not sure we will ever know in my lifetime. And I'm ok with that fact.Creation? I put this under the category of superstition and folklore. I truly believe in evolution and life as we know it starting from a "primordial soup" The physical evidence is overwhelming IMHO. There are too many pieces of the puzzle that I would have to ignore to assume that one day man wasn't there and the next day he was.
Religion? From which the story of creation comes from... Well that goes back to when man became aware of his own mortality. When we as a species became self aware and were able to ask the tough questions. At that point in time, as we grew and developed, so did our questions to our physical world and inner self. They were tough questions that we were not in any kind of position to answer. So we developed stories to explain the unexplainable. When lighting came from the heavens, we didn't know the science behind it, so we said that it came from the gods. When the sun was blotted out by a solar eclipse, we "Knew" that once again the gods were doing it. As far back as written history goes we see explanations to our physical universe as being divine occurrences, yet today, through science, we know otherwise.
Take any given century and you can find beliefs that were abandoned the following century because science has proven otherwise. Some take longer, but the basic formula is... We don't have an answer to something, we make up a story to fit the situation, then we discover the science behind it and move away from the story. I'll give you an example, but if you look you will see that history are filled with these stories in all different variations.
In our not so distant past, the earth was known to be flat. It was so believed because of limited means of travel and communication. It was heresy to think/say otherwise. There were some that held different views to the greater teaching/belief, but it wasn't until centuries later that we knew through exploration and science that the earth is spherical. The belief was changed because for the simple fact that it was a provable fact.
You can take the above example and use it on just about every ancient belief. Why? Because we have progressed in our knowledge and intellect. Now over time, some of these stories were repeated generation over generation being refined and perfected. They became what we know as religion. They turned into rules, laws and punishment helping mankind progress as a species. There was a need for order, law, organization and a belief in a higher power to keep us in line. Religion filled this void for us, it gave us a reason and it helped shape who we are as a people. For this, I am grateful for what the worlds religions haven given us. But we must understand them for what they are, stories and folklore.
This can also be applied to todays scientist and those who hold fast that there is a God. The same way our ancient relatives looked at lightning as a bolt from the gods, we look at how complex life is and say the same thing. Future generations will look back at this time and wonder how we ever made it... they will have the knowledge that we do not posses now.
I will finish my thoughts later... I must go to dinner with the wife
BadBoy@TheWheel
DT3's Twinkie
What I stated, was my honest belief's, and I am a spiritual person, and I am educated in the field of science. I have no coflict with my scientific mind, and spiritual being being in the same body.
Evan out
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Ok, good we're making progress on what you believe. Now, can you give me some proof of this?
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
====:ninja
Oh you so sly AEF. Waiting on the wings there eh? You ole sly fox you. :24:
Oh you so sly AEF. Waiting on the wings there eh? You ole sly fox you. :24:
IntruderLS1
Active Member
Making progress on what I believe eh? You have the most selective hearing on site.
I can give you "lots and lots" of what you would call "proof" concerning the great flood.
Since you're acting shady, pretending like you don't hear certain things I say, and don't know the definition of proof, why should I entertain you?
IntruderLS1
Active Member
Hey Baron. Welcome. You're only the second person I've ever seen on site here quote Nietzsche. :smiley24:
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