Profit Based Health?

[Guyzerr]

Not a solution -- 50 solutions. This is not a federal issue. Each state can decide how it wants to handle itself.

Help me understand why you think it should be a state run program instead of a federal one where every citizen is able to receive the exact same care regardless of their geographical location. Are human bodies different depending which state they live in?

 

[edgray]

Help me understand why you think it should be a state run program instead of a federal one where every citizen is able to receive the exact same care regardless of their geographical location. Are human bodies different depending which state they live in?

that is actually a very good point.

 

[porterjack]

that is actually a very good point.

wonder if other countries view healthcare this way? is certainly a federal (national) issue in Canada

 

[edgray]

Don't misread, Ed. The propaganda piece shows that people weren't living within their means in the first place. The medical issues were one more cost piled onto an already broken budget. The bankruptcies weren't "due to medical bills." From the opening of the article: "... a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills." The boat was sinking already, that last wave did her in. That's a far cry from the medical bills causing 60% of the bankruptcies.

I didn't misread the article at all. And I wouldn't classify the study as a propaganda piece, it's simple common sense. Being capsized by medical bills still means they were bankrupted by medical bills, irrelevant of what other debts they may have. We're talking about the middle classes here - and since Reagan the middle classes have beeb forced into more and more debt as wages have stagnated and the cost of living has risen. Those people weren't necessarily "sinking" already, but sure, they would've been already in debt. Imagine if they didn't have health care bills to worry about, they wouldn't have gone under.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html
http://amjmed.blogspot.com/2009/08/medical-bankruptcy-in-united-states.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090604095123.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jun2009/db2009064_666715.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0202-08.htm

there are of course articles refuting the research, published of course by the insurance industry:

http://www.american.com/archive/2009/august/the-medical-bankruptcy-myth

 

[edgray]

wonder if other countries view healthcare this way? is certainly a federal (national) issue in Canada

In the UK, there's the NHS (England) NHS Scotland and NHS Wales and Health and Social Care in Northern Ireland. They are different entities and answer directly to the people in the countries they serve. I guess that's kind of similar to running it state-by-state in the US.

 

[Minor Axis]

People didn't have free replacements before insurance came along. They don't need free replacements now. Living within one's means is a wonderfully freeing feeling. You should try it.

It's not living beyond your means. I can guarantee that your view is VERY minority. I know of no political party who would dream of proposing this because it is a non-starter.

You're way off base. It's not the medical service, it's the dependence on the federal gov't that I'm against. That dependence is what has destroyed America and reduced us to the amoral, lazy, bitchy, dependent, dysfunctional population we have become.

So what is your opinion of the Canadian health system and the people who depend on it? Is it about to implode? Any Canadians care to comment?

 

[Accountable]

It's not living beyond your means. I can guarantee that your view is VERY minority. I know of no political party who would dream of proposing this because it is a non-starter.

What's not living beyond your means??

So what is your opinion of the Canadian health system and the people who depend on it? Is it about to implode? Any Canadians care to comment?

My opinion of the Canadian system is that it's Canadian. :confused Are you & I having the same conversation?

 

[Guyzerr]

that is actually a very good point.

Thanks Ed. I thought so as well.

I've met Americans all over the country and they all seem to be quite human and very much alike.

 

[Guyzerr]

What's not living beyond your means??


My opinion of the Canadian system is that it's Canadian. :confused Are you & I having the same conversation?

If you put an American and a Canadian in the same room you wouldn't be able to tell us apart providing the Americans kept their mouth shut.

Accountable we eat the same food, drive the same cars, wear the same cloths etc. The only thing dividing us it the 49th and your love of guns. Other than that we're all alike when it comes to the body. Which reminds me... you haven't answered my question yet. How come?

 

[Accountable]

If you put an American and a Canadian in the same room you wouldn't be able to tell us apart providing the Americans kept their mouth shut. [Looks aren't everything.]

Accountable we eat the same food, drive the same cars, wear the same cloths etc. The only thing dividing us it the 49th and your love of guns. Other than that we're all alike when it comes to the body. Which reminds me... you haven't answered my question yet. How come?

I don't get why you think it necessary to point our similarities out. I didn't answer your question because when I logged in it brought me to the top of this page, so I missed those last 5 or so posts.

I didn't misread the article at all. And I wouldn't classify the study as a propaganda piece, it's simple common sense. Being capsized by medical bills still means they were bankrupted by medical bills, irrelevant of what other debts they may have. We're talking about the middle classes here - and since Reagan the middle classes have beeb forced into more and more debt as wages have stagnated and the cost of living has risen.

It's this mindset that's useless to converse with. No one is "forced" into debt.

Help me understand why you think it should be a state run program instead of a federal one where every citizen is able to receive the exact same care regardless of their geographical location. Are human bodies different depending which state they live in?

It's our system of government. It's the way we're set up. Our federal government should only be doing that which only it can do. If it can be done at the state or local level, Washington is constitutionally supposed to keep out of it. It's a beautiful system when it's allowed to work.

 

[Guyzerr]

I don't get why you think it necessary to point our similarities out.

Because we have a system that works reasonably well so if it works here there's no reason why it couldn't work there. Fairly simple concept.

It's our system of government. It's the way we're set up. Our federal government should only be doing that which only it can do. If it can be done at the state or local level, Washington is constitutionally supposed to keep out of it. It's a beautiful system when it's allowed to work.

You keep throwing your constitution into the mix. That document was written ions ago and didn't take health care into consideration. If that little piece of paper can cover your misinterpreted gun laws it can surely cover a much more important issue such as health care for all. It's much too big of an issue to be managed by state or local govt's and you know it.

 

[Accountable]

Because we have a system that works reasonably well so if it works here there's no reason why it couldn't work there. Fairly simple concept.

Too simple. So simple it screams of your ignorance. We have different governments.

You keep throwing your constitution into the mix. That document was written ions ago and didn't take health care into consideration. If that little piece of paper can cover your misinterpreted gun laws it can surely cover a much more important issue such as health care for all. It's much too big of an issue to be managed by state or local govt's and you know it.

You glibly disrespect the very foundation our nation is built upon and expect to be treated as if you have the first inkling of what you're talking about??

Our Constitution can be changed if the nation wants it changed. We have a system in place. It's not identical to your system. Accept that. Respect that. Fairly simple concept.

 

[Francis]

Accountable will never accept that socialized health care is good for all. It's not that he is bad but the concept is beyond his understanding.. I am sorry I am not being disrespectful but there are people who cannot see, or don't want to, the benefits of certain programs.
How can you explain that

• Doctors in Canada, under Universal Health Care, all run medical clinics privately and refuse any patients they deem not suited to their clientèle.
• Blood, X-Ray and Ultrasound clinics can still be privately owned and make profit.
• Drug companies invest billions in a small country such as Canada due to R&D.
• Centralized government ( Federal ) oversees and ensures all people get equal and fair health care. Think about the rich states that could do so much more for it's people much like rich people. Centralizing it Federally makes it more fair for everyone and thats that advantage out and gives everyone the same system. The lower administration parts of health care are left to the other levels of government and private sector as long as they meet the Federal requirements.

If the system was to have broken down, it would have in the 1960 when Health Care was introduced.. Adjustments done properly have corrected issues within the system and will always need fine tuning..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

 

[Guyzerr]

Too simple. So simple it screams of your ignorance. We have different governments.

I'm very thankful of that fact.

The more I read your posts the more I'm reminded you're a teacher.

You glibly disrespect the very foundation our nation is built upon and expect to be treated as if you have the first inkling of what you're talking about??

Our Constitution can be changed if the nation wants it changed. We have a system in place. It's not identical to your system. Accept that. Respect that. Fairly simple concept.

You love to quote the constitution when it suits you. Accept the fact that your wife is in the medical profession and because of it you have a very biased outlook.

 

[Accountable]

I'm very thankful of that fact.

The more I read your posts the more I'm reminded you're a teacher.

Thank you.

You love to quote the constitution when it suits you. Accept the fact that your wife is in the medical profession and because of it you have a very biased outlook.

I can't accept it because it isn't true. You must be thinking of someone else's spouse.

 

[Accountable]

Accountable will never accept that socialized health care is good for all. It's not that he is bad but the concept is beyond his understanding.. I am sorry I am not being disrespectful but there are people who cannot see, or don't want to, the benefits of certain programs.
How can you explain that

• Doctors in Canada, under Universal Health Care, all run medical clinics privately and refuse any patients they deem not suited to their clientèle.
• Blood, X-Ray and Ultrasound clinics can still be privately owned and make profit.
• Drug companies invest billions in a small country such as Canada due to R&D.
• Centralized government ( Federal ) oversees and ensures all people get equal and fair health care. Think about the rich states that could do so much more for it's people much like rich people. Centralizing it Federally makes it more fair for everyone and thats that advantage out and gives everyone the same system. The lower administration parts of health care are left to the other levels of government and private sector as long as they meet the Federal requirements.

If the system was to have broken down, it would have in the 1960 when Health Care was introduced.. Adjustments done properly have corrected issues within the system and will always need fine tuning..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

You seem to refuse to understand my stance. The United States of America has a different government setup than other nations. It is much closer to the EU than any one nation. Why is there no EU-wide single health system, since all people are alike and have the same needs? Answer that question (instead of blindly leaping over it and trying to win an argument) and you will be closer to understanding my point of view.

As for "socialized health care" being good for all, imo it is an unacceptable means to the end for us in the USA, but that has little to do with the question of handing individual health care decisions over to our federal government.

 

[Guyzerr]

Thank you.
I can't accept it because it isn't true. You must be thinking of someone else's spouse.

Now I'm confused because I'm sure way way back you said she was a doctor or something.

 

[Accountable]

Now I'm confused because I'm sure way way back you said she was a doctor or something.

Don't I wish! I'm not certain I ever told anything about my beloved in this forum, so I'm hesitant to do so now.

 

[Guyzerr]

Don't I wish! I'm not certain I ever told anything about my beloved in this forum, so I'm hesitant to do so now.

That's the way the pickle squirts I suppose. :24:

 

[Francis]

You seem to refuse to understand my stance. The United States of America has a different government setup than other nations. It is much closer to the EU than any one nation. Why is there no EU-wide single health system, since all people are alike and have the same needs? Answer that question (instead of blindly leaping over it and trying to win an argument) and you will be closer to understanding my point of view.

As for "socialized health care" being good for all, imo it is an unacceptable means to the end for us in the USA, but that has little to do with the question of handing individual health care decisions over to our federal government.

You seem to fail to understand my point.. I am not trying to win the argument, there is no argument.. I stated clearly that your opinion will never be changed by what we say here and I stand by my statement..

Socialized Health Care, as much as you may want to disagree, has not failed. What has failed are the feeble attempts to discredit it. There are many like you here in Canada that would love our Health Care to fail so we could become private again.. It irks them that the system that had issues a few years ago, has improved dramatically, back to the positive.. Of course people always point to any negative aspect of a system..

You keep stating your government is unique, BIG DEAL.. Every other government in the world in each country has a variance to adapt itself to it's unique population and ethic groups, religion and other cultural aspect.. Get over it man and stop trying to make the US Government what it isn't..