Off Shoring Jobs- Good for our Security?

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Well, I completely disagree with you, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well I guess everyone in the US can always go to medical school then:unsure:

 

[SgtSpike]

Well I guess everyone in the US can always go to medical school then:unsure:

No, but everyone could go to various schools for various things and get higher-level jobs that would pay more in the free world market.

 

[SgtSpike]

One more thought about this subject - if you want to bring manufacturing jobs back into the US, you've got to get rid of the unions! No wonder no manufacturing companies will stay here or start up here, when they see that unions have extorted $70/hr out of companies like GM! I certainly wouldn't be considering the US as an option for unskilled labor if I owned a manufacturing company and was looking to open a new plant.

 

[Peter Parka]

No, but everyone could go to various schools for various things and get higher-level jobs that would pay more in the free world market.

If everyone had higher level jobs, who would do the lower level work?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

One more thought about this subject - if you want to bring manufacturing jobs back into the US, you've got to get rid of the unions! No wonder no manufacturing companies will stay here or start up here, when they see that unions have extorted $70/hr out of companies like GM! I certainly wouldn't be considering the US as an option for unskilled labor if I owned a manufacturing company and was looking to open a new plant.

$70 per hour? That was irresponsible journalism, what source is that from?

Regardless of how I feel about unions, that's hysterics at its best, not a union inthis country paying a member $70 bucks an hour:24:

If so, point me to them...I'll join

 

[Tim]

One more thought about this subject - if you want to bring manufacturing jobs back into the US, you've got to get rid of the unions! No wonder no manufacturing companies will stay here or start up here, when they see that unions have extorted $70/hr out of companies like GM! I certainly wouldn't be considering the US as an option for unskilled labor if I owned a manufacturing company and was looking to open a new plant.

Jesus man... from what I have seen you post so far, this whole economic mess can be boiled down to two things. Minorities buying houses they can't afford and Unions. Are you sure that's it? No one else to blame?

No only if we can bust the unions and kick those damn poor people back into the trailer park from where they came from, we can let the "free" market fix everything.


Here is a little light reading for you. The Rebirth of American Capitalism - PostPartisan - Quick takes from The Post's opinion writers

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Jesus man... from what I have seen you post so far, this whole economic mess can be boiled down to two things. Minorities buying houses they can't afford and Unions. Are you sure that's it? No one else to blame?

No only if we can bust the unions and kick those damn poor people back into the trailer park from where they came from, we can let the "free" market fix everything.


Here is a little light reading for you. The Rebirth of American Capitalism - PostPartisan - Quick takes from The Post's opinion writers

C'mon Tim, we don't need no stinking manufacturing here....Just Lawyers and Doctors

Oh and business majors

 

[Tim]

One more thought about this subject - if you want to bring manufacturing jobs back into the US, you've got to get rid of the unions! No wonder no manufacturing companies will stay here or start up here, when they see that unions have extorted $70/hr out of companies like GM! I certainly wouldn't be considering the US as an option for unskilled labor if I owned a manufacturing company and was looking to open a new plant.

One more thing about this... if we are going to compete with the rest of the worlds markets by getting rid of unions, are we also going to have the government subsidize the businesses and provide universal health care? Because why should American companies have to pay it's workers health benefits when their competition doesn't? And why shouldn't GM and Ford get federal money to expand and grow like it's competition does?

 

[Alien Allen]

Tim do you agree with the Card Check proposal? Not the concept of voting to go union but the fact they can if they so choose decide to have open voting?

Another thing. I have a small business. Under Card Check if passed my half a dozen guys could vote union and force me to go union. Does a small business owner not have the right to determine the fate of his company? It would cripple me to lose flexibility. In the end that also would penalize those that have to be laid off during the winter which happens every year.

 

[Tim]

Tim do you agree with the Card Check proposal? Not the concept of voting to go union but the fact they can if they so choose decide to have open voting?

Another thing. I have a small business. Under Card Check if passed my half a dozen guys could vote union and force me to go union. Does a small business owner not have the right to determine the fate of his company? It would cripple me to lose flexibility. In the end that also would penalize those that have to be laid off during the winter which happens every year.

As far as the Card Check. No. I think any voting should be as anonymous as voting in an election. I think you might see more intimidation from Management and Union leaders on any hold-outs

As far as your workers unionizing. You do have a say in it. Actually you have the last say in the matter, especially in this market. If your workers decided to unionize and hold you hostage with wages or benefits that you couldn't manage, you could fire them all and replace them as you see fit. You need to remember that union contracts are just that, contracts between the union and the management (You) If you don't agree to the terms, then you are not bound by them.

 

[Tim]

Just remember, barring any employment contracts that you may have participated in, all states are at-will employment states. Meaning you do not need a reason to fire one of your employees, or all of them.

 

[SgtSpike]

$70 per hour? That was irresponsible journalism, what source is that from?

Regardless of how I feel about unions, that's hysterics at its best, not a union inthis country paying a member $70 bucks an hour:24:

If so, point me to them...I'll join

Join up, but I bet it's terribly hard to get a job there.

One of the big three pays their workers an average of $73/hr in cash, benefits, and retirement pensions.

Source: How Much Do UAW Workers Really Make? - Stephen Spruiell - The Corner on National Review Online

 

[Alien Allen]

As far as the Card Check. No. I think any voting should be as anonymous as voting in an election. I think you might see more intimidation from Management and Union leaders on any hold-outs

As far as your workers unionizing. You do have a say in it. Actually you have the last say in the matter, especially in this market. If your workers decided to unionize and hold you hostage with wages or benefits that you couldn't manage, you could fire them all and replace them as you see fit. You need to remember that union contracts are just that, contracts between the union and the management (You) If you don't agree to the terms, then you are not bound by them.

My understanding of Card Check is that if they vote union then you must go union.

How the bargaining works from there I do not know. But I guarantee you that how I deal with layoffs a union would never accept. I have a different situation than most as almost all my guys are around the same age and have been with me for over 30 years. They know the pitfalls of slow business in the winter and accept how we go about layoffs. I can not explain what we do but it is very fair and equitable and all I can say union would never allow it. Unions are not flexible from what I observe once the rules are in place for the most part.

 

[SgtSpike]

Jesus man... from what I have seen you post so far, this whole economic mess can be boiled down to two things. Minorities buying houses they can't afford and Unions. Are you sure that's it? No one else to blame?

No only if we can bust the unions and kick those damn poor people back into the trailer park from where they came from, we can let the "free" market fix everything.


Here is a little light reading for you. The Rebirth of American Capitalism - PostPartisan - Quick takes from The Post's opinion writers

I never said unions were to blame for the economic mess... maybe for the mess that the big three are in, but not for the economic crisis as a whole. The housing forclosures started the current mess we are in, and that stemmed from people buying houses they cannot afford, which was partially greed on the part of consumers and corporations, and was partially the fault of Clinton for trying to get poorer people into houses they couldn't afford in the long run.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Join up, but I bet it's terribly hard to get a job there.

One of the big three pays their workers an average of $73/hr in cash, benefits, and retirement pensions.

Source: How Much Do UAW Workers Really Make? - Stephen Spruiell - The Corner on National Review Online

Fact:

Insuarnce benefits packages account for 25% of your total compensation, to factor that in is like saying that the love from your parents added another million dollars to raising you, it's rediculous.

I mean you do realize you're talking to an independent, right?

$73hr isn't realized income, and the corporations get practically all of that omney back that they pay out in beneifts

It is a bottom line item that goes against the profit, and is itemized for write off. Blaming the American worker for the high cost of healthcare is insane.

If you want to hang someone, hang the insurance companies. The unions aren't raising the premiums

 

[Tim]

Well I know the contract my company has with the union states that if we get slow, we can send anyone home we want. We don't need to show proof. We can just walk out to the shop and tell three guys to take the next week off (without pay)
It's actually one of the benefits our company has since we went union. And if we get real busy, we just call the union hall and have as many bodies as we need the next day for as long as we need them. And they are all qualified right out of the gate.
The company I came from had major issues with labor. If we were slow, we basically needed to keep them on the books so we wouldn't want to lose a qualified guy. And when we were busy, we had to pay massive overtime to complete projects ontime. It was a real hassle. Trying to hire someone new who knew what the hell they were doing was near impossible in this area.

 

[SgtSpike]

Fact:

Insuarnce benefits packages account for 25% of your total compensation, to factor that in is like saying that the love from your parents added another million dollars to raising you, it's rediculous.

I mean you do realize you're talking to an independent, right?

$73hr isn't realized income, and the corporations get practically all of that omney back that they pay out in beneifts

It is a bottom line item that goes against the profit, and is itemized for write off. Blaming the American worker for the high cost of healthcare is insane.

If you want to hang someone, hang the insurance companies. The unions aren't raising the premiums

My point is that it is insanely expensive (whether or not you count healthcare) to pay for manufacturing jobs with union workers in the US. That is why no companies will start new manufacturing plants here - because they are afraid of their workforce unionizing.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

My point is that it is insanely expensive (whether or not you count healthcare) to pay for manufacturing jobs with union workers in the US. That is why no companies will start new manufacturing plants here - because they are afraid of their workforce unionizing.

They aren't afraid of anything other than todays ticker symbol, and tommorrows bonus

 

[Alien Allen]

Just remember, barring any employment contracts that you may have participated in, all states are at-will employment states. Meaning you do not need a reason to fire one of your employees, or all of them.

MI is an at will I believe

My wife worked at the A@P Food Store back several years ago. All but admin were union. They had a number of lazy ass workers that they tried to discipline and got spanked by the union.

 

[Tim]

MI is an at will I believe

My wife worked at the A@P Food Store back several years ago. All but admin were union. They had a number of lazy ass workers that they tried to discipline and got spanked by the union.

All states are at-will employment.

As far as A@P getting spanked by the union when they tried to discipline lazy workers... that has to do with the contract they signed, not the union. The only power the union has over the owners/management is the contract that was negotiated between the parties. That's it. And as far as strikes go, that's only allowed if it's written into the contract. So if the union is not given authorization to strike in the contract you negotiate between them and you, then you can fire anyone that tries to strike. It's only the contract that makes it legal and management needed to agree to it at one point.