Obamacare upheld!! BUSH SCOTUS APPOINTEE John Roberts is the swing vote!!!

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Kyle B

Kyle B

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retro said:
No... payment for health care is provided by insurance companies. You can get healthcare without insurance, so it's not a healthcare problem, or a lack of, or anything. It's an entitlement problem.
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Okay, I should not have said that insurance companies provide healthcare. You're right, hospitals provide it. But, insurance (or the government) pays for all that. Unless you can afford it, you don't directly pay for all of your own healthcare.

That's semantics though.

And it is a *lack of* problem. If millions of Americans don't have healthcare coverage that is a problem. Maybe some see it as an entitlement problem, I understand where you're coming from. But I think everyone should be able to take care of themselves, just as everyone has the right to feed themselves. Getting proper treatment for illness or injury or whatever is a basic need.

My concern is that people who can't afford healthcare and don't qualify for medicaid will fall through the cracks.
 
Tim

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retro said:
No... payment for health care is provided by insurance companies. You can get healthcare without insurance, so it's not a healthcare problem, or a lack of, or anything. It's an entitlement problem.
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Of course it's a healthcare problem. Do you have any idea how many people are turned away every day? Just sent home to die.

Sure you can get life saving care without insurance or money. But try walking in and saying you have cancer and no money. The'll laugh at you.
 
Accountable

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Kyle B said:
That's semantics though.
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IMO, it's the very heart of the problem. We've gone from insuring against catastrophes to using insurance for every basic service. That has driven prices up so high that the only way to get care is to contribute to insurance company profits - a portion of which goes to the campaign coffers of select politicians to encourage/require more people to buy more insurance.
 
Johnfromokc

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What I find interesting in addition to the fact that a Bush Appointee swung the vote, is the fact that the Mandate was presented by the conservative think tank The Heritiage foundation around 1989:

We would include a mandate in our proposal–not a mandate on employers, but a mandate on heads of households–to obtain at least a basic package of health insurance for themselves and their families. That would have to include, by federal law, a catastrophic provision in the form of a stop loss for a family’s total health outlays. It would have to include all members of the family, and it might also include certain very specific services, such as preventive care, well baby visits, and other items.
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Link to the entire article:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/10/20/how-a-conservative-think-tank-invented-the-individual-mandate/

The Republicans presented essentially the same bill as "Obamacare" in1993 in response to "Hillarycare". There were no "constitutional" complaints from the same circles we are hearing them from now.

In 1993, at the height of President Bill Clinton's health care reform initiative, Sen. John Chafee, R-R.I., along with 19 other Republicans and two Democrats, put forth a bill which was considered the major GOP proposal. One of the co-sponsors was then-Sen. Dave Durenberger, R-Minn. The bill, just like the Democratic version, never passed. But in a sense, it's been revived this year.

In fact, the key provisions in the Chafee bill may seem familiar, as they bear a strong resemblance to those in the current Democratic Senate bill, and now in President Barack Obama's proposal. A mandate that individuals buy insurance, subsidies for the poor to buy insurance and the requirement that insurers offer a standard benefits package and refrain from discriminating based on pre-existing conditions were all in the 1993 GOP bill.
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Link:

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Checking-In-With/Durenberger-1993-gop-bill-q-and-a.aspx
 
Alien Allen

Alien Allen

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retro said:
I was thinking earlier today... they ruled that the mandate can stand because it is a tax. Now, taxes have to pass congress with a 2/3 majority, Obamacare did not have a 2/3 majority. So legally, shouldn't the legislation go back to Congress at this point?
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I thought I was pretty aware of things. I do not recall the 2/3 requirement to pass a tax.
 
Johnfromokc

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Francis said:
Please tell me this is not true..

http://www.ctvnews.ca/ctv-national-news/the-twitter-reaction-to-obamacare-1.858137
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:eek :eek :eek :D :D :D

293120_487110421315610_1942458561_n.jpg
 
Alien Allen

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If the republicans get control of all 3 branches they can squash this more than you think from what I just read.

Roberts may have tried to play both sides of the fence on this. Given the negative for the SC the last few years he may have wanted to strike down Obamacare but found another way to do the same by their ruling this is a Tax and in turn make the court look more moderate.

Since they claimed this was a tax it can be rescinded under budget reconciliation. Aint it fucking ironic that the democrats used that to pass this crap and now it can be used to undo it. Under budget reconciliation you only need a majority and don't have cloture to worry about.
 
Johnfromokc

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You guys really think the insurance lobby will allow the Republicans to actually change this law? And do you guys really believe Republicans want to change it?

I think there will be much shit talking to baffle the base with bullshit, but this conservative health care bill will stand.
 
Alien Allen

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It may not matter whether they want to amend it or abolish it. Since it was passed illegally there may well be lawsuits drawn up by the state to declare it was passed illegally. Which it was in spirit for sure. I doubt there was anything close to this far reaching that was passed using such bullshit gimmicks like congress did
 
Tim

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Alien Allen said:
It may not matter whether they want to amend it or abolish it. Since it was passed illegally there may well be lawsuits drawn up by the state to declare it was passed illegally. Which it was in spirit for sure. I doubt there was anything close to this far reaching that was passed using such bullshit gimmicks like congress did
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And how do you figure this? How was it passed illegally?
 
Accountable

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Alien Allen said:
If the republicans get control of all 3 branches they can squash this more than you think from what I just read.
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Maybe they can, but they won't.

Alien Allen said:
Roberts may have tried to play both sides of the fence on this. Given the negative for the SC the last few years he may have wanted to strike down Obamacare but found another way to do the same by their ruling this is a Tax and in turn make the court look more moderate.
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He definitely allowed President Obama to intimidate him with that speech implying that they are less than him because they are an unelected body.
 
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