Obama said to withdraw from Iraq--McCain said to Surge!!!

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BadBoy@TheWheel

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Ehhh it's the typical right wing thought process....Everything is communism.

I'm done, and Foxy....Political think tanks.....Are another problem with this country. I don't really need someone being paid by a politician to tell me what I should believe in. I can actually think for myself, think tanks are just modern lobbyists that nobody sees.
 
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Fox Mulder

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Ehhh it's the typical right wing thought process....Everything is communism.

I'm done, and Foxy....Political think tanks.....Are another problem with this country. I don't really need someone being paid by a politician to tell me what I should believe in. I can actually think for myself, think tanks are just modern lobbyists that nobody sees.

Morgan O. Reynolds is chief economist at the U.S. Department of Labor and is on leave from Texas A&M University, where he is a professor of economics.

He's a college professor--are you saying hie's right wing? :confused He's a chief economist with the US Department of Labor. What source are you going to use to educate yourself if not economic institutes or academics?

OK Evan--let's try that. Forget that virtually every economist in the country would come to the same conclusions (because economics is a science), do your own common sense approach since you are a scientist yourself. Start with answering a few questions.

1. The price of gas went up recently--you've see I am sure the ripple effect of that through the economy--prices of everything else is going up--that's Economics 101, basic supply and demand.

2. If unions were a good thing and actually worked, then why don't we just have a national union providing those benefits to every American worker? Or better yet, why not just set a minimum wage at $20 per hour for every worker (or whatever we decided is a "living" or fair wage)?

Ok--if we had No.2, the laws of economics would dictate of course that prices would simply compensate for the increase in labor costs--that is it would be impossible to give employees real wage increases because the increases, if done across the country, would simply be reflected in higher prices, thereby eliminating the wage gain. And that would be the least of the problems--the higher wages would make our goods and services non-competetive in the world market thereby eliminating jobs.

The old Soviet Union attempted to remedy this problem by controlling prices. Of course, any good economist will tell you when you can't control prices--the world market operates in a free market, not a controlled market. The cost of the goods to the consumer had to be subsidized by the government, which of course had to get the money from somewhere--they can't just print it up. That's why the Soviet Union's economy collapsed--why its currency became worthless. That's what happens in an artificially controlled market.

Unions attempt to artificially raise wages above the prevailing market rates--they are allowed to do this solely by government advantages given to them--it is EXACTLY the same thing as what the Soviet Union did. If we allowed that on any large scale, the economy would collapse.

If you truly are a "science" person, then you should be able to research this and you'll come to the same conclusion--you have to because science does not lie.
 

Fox Mulder

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That's how it is these days in politics. Liberals are commies and conservatives are fascists. lol

This isn't scare tactics or labeling. Read my posts and research Economics. Artificially raising wages (or attempting to do so) is communism, plain and simple--its an attempt to control a free market and it doesn't work because economics is controlled by laws the same as the laws of physics--you can't change the laws of gravity by legislation--you can make all the laws you want that if a person falls off a building he/she cannot fall at a rate any faster than what will provide a safe landing. Guess what--when the person falls, they die. Its the same with economics--you can attempt to control the laws of economics, but you ultimately fail.
 

gLing

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This isn't scare tactics or labeling. Read my posts and research Economics. Artificially raising wages (or attempting to do so) is communism, plain and simple--its an attempt to control a free market and it doesn't work because economics is controlled by laws the same as the laws of physics--you can't change the laws of gravity by legislation--you can make all the laws you want that if a person falls off a building he/she cannot fall at a rate any faster than what will provide a safe landing. Guess what--when the person falls, they die. Its the same with economics--you can attempt to control the laws of economics, but you ultimately fail.
Oh I'm agree with you on that. I was just pointing out how each side labels each other whether it's true or not.
 

BadBoy@TheWheel

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He's a college professor--are you saying hie's right wing? :confused He's a chief economist with the US Department of Labor. What source are you going to use to educate yourself if not economic institutes or academics?

OK Evan--let's try that. Forget that virtually every economist in the country would come to the same conclusions (because economics is a science), do your own common sense approach since you are a scientist yourself. Start with answering a few questions.

1. The price of gas went up recently--you've see I am sure the ripple effect of that through the economy--prices of everything else is going up--that's Economics 101, basic supply and demand.

2. If unions were a good thing and actually worked, then why don't we just have a national union providing those benefits to every American worker? Or better yet, why not just set a minimum wage at $20 per hour for every worker (or whatever we decided is a "living" or fair wage)?

Ok--if we had No.2, the laws of economics would dictate of course that prices would simply compensate for the increase in labor costs--that is it would be impossible to give employees real wage increases because the increases, if done across the country, would simply be reflected in higher prices, thereby eliminating the wage gain. And that would be the least of the problems--the higher wages would make our goods and services non-competetive in the world market thereby eliminating jobs.

The old Soviet Union attempted to remedy this problem by controlling prices. Of course, any good economist will tell you when you can't control prices--the world market operates in a free market, not a controlled market. The cost of the goods to the consumer had to be subsidized by the government, which of course had to get the money from somewhere--they can't just print it up. That's why the Soviet Union's economy collapsed--why its currency became worthless. That's what happens in an artificially controlled market.

Unions attempt to artificially raise wages above the prevailing market rates--they are allowed to do this solely by government advantages given to them--it is EXACTLY the same thing as what the Soviet Union did. If we allowed that on any large scale, the economy would collapse.

If you truly are a "science" person, then you should be able to research this and you'll come to the same conclusion--you have to because science does not lie.

One, I said I didn't believe that "Politcal Think Tanks" were of any value at all, I didn't say the information was no good..There's a difference, and don't think they aren't influenced, who do you think financially supports them for all the research they do? (government grants maybe???? I might look into that)

Secondly talking about oil and gas is my business, and what economists obviously don't a. see or b. ignore hoping it will go away is the FACT that energy particularly GASOLINE, a traded commodity closely tied with the price of WTI (which a a totally bullshit benchmark and needs to be done away with) is no longer traded on the basis of supply and demand, and I know this to be a fact, there is no linearity at 100+$BBL. Period

Next, my attitude is, has and will always be that decent salaries stimulate the ecomomy, it's simple you don't have to be a Nobel Laurate to comprehend that the more you have, the more you're going to spend. That money works its way up to the top, then trickles back down, I don't see what's so difficult to uderstand.

A happy, well compensated workforce is historically more productive, don't cite a college prof, I'll tell you my company spent millions on an internal study to prove what I would have told them for free.

Unions are conglomerating, and to some degree there will be a ceiling to salaries for union workers, we are dealing with that on my side of the industry.

What we deal with is dangerous, and the workers we employ are employed to do a job that requires skill, a modern approach to problem solving, and a willingness and knowledge that they could easily sacrifice life and/or limb to manufacture the gas that your Prius needs;)

For that, they are compensated well, and have the best benefits we can afford to give them, in exchange for that we see very skilled workers coming into the workforce, less injuries, less days missed and our assets seem to operate better than they ever have...

Perhaps we are more profitable than ever because of political think tanks:dunno

Or just maybe....We know what the fuck we're doing
 

Minor Axis

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I've made my case here and in other posts regarding unions. I'm more than happy to allow other forum member to make up their own minds.

Just keep in mind I am biased for U.S. workers while Mulder is completely biased for corporations. He'll tell me not to think I deserve anything, while he completely skips over comments that accuse some CEOs of thinking they deserve to be rich. Why? Because according to him only the owners of businesses are important in this country. He'll deny it but just peruse his posts and it won't take long to figure out.
 

Alien Allen

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Unions suck

They served their purpose
With snake oil lawyers out there ready to sue at the drop of a hat and an overzealous govt micro managing everything unions are not needed.

Now lets get back to the Surge :D
 
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