Obama is to Bush as FDR was to Hoover?

[Alien Allen]

I deal with water

Not familiar with air regulations

I was referring to water where it is possible that it is contained and does not cross state lines.

As I said when it crosses state lines that is another matter and I agree it needs attention.

We have the Great Lakes Compact which deals with water issues in the region.

The MI DEQ is like the police, judge and jury all ruled into one. They do not like being questioned. They rule with an iron fist and if you try to fight em they make you pay. Both on a state and local level.

That is not just a personal opinion. There is a well known culture in the DEQ which the very top as struggled for years to deal with. Every new administration comes in and attempts to correct the problem to no avail. We now may seem some new head way but even the new department heads admit it is going to be tough to over come.

John it would appear your work mainly dealt with compliance with larger companies?

If so then you need to understand there is a huge difference between how these large companies are effected and the small ones.

It is a bit off topic but take for example the Commercial Drivers License Laws. They have bastardized that from what IMO was the original intent. There is no question that large semis need to be regulated. But that has filtered down to much smaller vehicles which is bullshit. For all of our 100 years plus in business we never had to get a DOT license on our trucks and had to get yearly inspections along with the health reports and drug inspections. Even our smallest truck though gets caught into the bullshit because we might haul an air compressor. Even despite the fact we would still be under 10,000 lbs. If you don't think this costs money then you would be wrong. It is easily over $1000 a year per truck to comply when you add it all up. And there is not one damn thing it has done to make the roads safer. IMO

Oh and I know a guy that got nailed for $600 in fines a year ago for the following offense. $200 for not having a DOT sticker on the vehicle... $200 for not having a commercial plate on the vehicle........... $200 for not having a yearly inspection of the vehicle. This was all for hauling a 50 gallon barrel of water on the back of a 3/4 ton pickup truck. Once you put the water on the truck it now becomes a commercial vehicle. Note: a commercial plate refers to being over a certain weight. It does not necessarily mean because it was used commercially here. I don't think it is a coincidence that on the ticket citation there are 3 spaces for the violations. Never seen them fail to fill all three.

 

[Alien Allen]

Doesn't the national bureaucracy keep all the States on the same page? If not for Federal Guidance, I could easily see a State like Texas saying dump your crap on your property no problem. Yes I am prejudice.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays!

You missed my point. You could in effect codify the existing EPA regs on the state level. And then eliminate the EPA and let the states manage the program. As I said most states already have a DEQ or EPA or OSHA. Let the states manage it. And again you all act like things would return to the dark ages. That will never happen. There simply is too much pressure from Envrionmental lobbyists for that to happen

 

[Johnfromokc]

Allen, I understand your frustrations. In Oklahoma, you can be fined $500 for failing to have your contractors license # on your vehicles. But the fact of the matter is that compliance issues and fines et al were addressed in the 6 hour written examinations I had to pass to get my contractors licenses. I cannot claim I did not know having passed the exams.

It's just a part of doing business. I've dealt with it as a small business owner and as a management employee of a large national organization. One of the part time businesses I owned and operated was a landscape maintenance company with a trailered rig with a 500 gallon chemical spray tank filled with controlled pesticides. I had to pass two state written exams to get the applicators and contractors license - even if I only used back pack sprayers and a broadcast pelletized dry fertilizer spreader, I still had to comply. And that included record keeping requirements. I also had to carry spill containment material and stencil the CHEMTREC emergency spill response number on my tank. That's just life when you engage in a business where a spill could contaminate ground water or create other environmental and safety hazards.

You just deal with it and write the costs off as business expenses. All your competitors have the same compliance requirements so it is not like anyone has an advantage or disadvantage over anyone else. Truly it comes down to attitudes. If you simply accept the regulation and comply, and keep your compliance records up to date, there will be no issues. If, OTOH, you choose to fight the compliance authorities, they'll oblige you with a smile.

I've listened to contractors complain about the local inspectors my whole life. No complaints from me - I simply learned their pet peeves and maintained good humor and built good working relationships. Their job is to protect the public, not to hassle contractors. When you look at it that way, it is amazing how easy compliance becomes, and what nice people most of those inspectors really are.

With all that said, I know contractors and business owners that will dump toxic waste anywhere they think they could get away with it if there were no compliance laws. Some of them still try and get caught and complain loudly when they get busted, fined, and in some cases jailed. Like it or not, some humans need the threat of punishment to force them to do what is right by our environment. If anything, the EPA needs to get more agressive with compliance enforcement and fines. If the EPA were eliminated, the polluters would go right back to the cheapest disposal method possible.

 

[Alien Allen]

In my little world unnecessary regulations are killing us.

Compliance is a huge problem. Many in all trades just ignore them and willingly pay fines when caught in the gamble it will be cheaper than compliance.

My point was more to the fact the govt likes to lump all kinds of things into one basket and they do it with cunning guile.

You or I could go out and purchase a huge motor home as big as a school bus. And not be subjected to any of the CDL, DOT, etc. requirements. Do you think that is by happenstance?

Hell no it was done on purpose. People could give a fuck what a business has to comply with. It does not impact them in an immediate and overt way. Anybody with a brain would tell you that motor home should be subject to the same regulations where a CDL license is required and DOT regulations and annual inspections required as it is a huge vehicle and just as dangerous as a semi in an accident. The govt exempted private vehicles because they know damn well that there would be more apt to be an outrage.

And do not think for a moment that just because it is personal property one would take care to ensure they are a safe driver and the vehicle is safe. If you want to use that argument then a mom and pop business should be exempt to since it is their personal property.

sorry about the hijack but this issue pisses me off to no end. Truck enforcement is a massive money maker here. It is all about the money.