Obama announces cap on executive pay

[Accountable]

HOE.
LEE.
SHIT.

you're in the United States, right? Planet Earth?

jeebus cripes, sarge, these are the same companies that ran our economy into the ground and now are needing billions of dollars from the government to keep them afloat.

I'd say the majority of decisions such as to pay someone tens of millions of dollars IS part of the problem, if not THE problem.

The salary cap is as much symbolic as it is pragmatic. I'm sorry, but if MY tax dollars are going to bail out a company because they FUBAR'd, I think it's only fair that they DON'T get paid $25 million per. That's just me...

Why do you think Wells Fargo put the kibosh on their swank Vegas trip patting themselves on the back for doing a great job right after receiving billions? I mean, really now....

I'm not sure we're in the United States anymore, GP. WTF are our tax dollars being given to these idiots in the first place?? Oh, you burned through billions in profits, reward stupitidity with pleasure trips and huge bonuses? Here, take some of our money as well! :wrf:

If this were still the United States, we'd be celebrating the little banks and businesses that stepped in where the giant ones fell, hiring whatever competent people they might find among the rubble and wishing the others good luck.

Instead, we watch as our gov't dumps truckloads of cash onto the fire, then act surprised as it burns; then try to fix the banking and mortgage problems by increasing healthcare for children -- and doing it with straight faces!

Paying people tens of millions of dollars isn't the problem, it's not allowing stupid people to suffer the consequences of their stupidity. That's what would have happened in the United States.

 

[Tim]

I'm not sure we're in the United States anymore, GP. WTF are our tax dollars being given to these idiots in the first place?? Oh, you burned through billions in profits, reward stupitidity with pleasure trips and huge bonuses? Here, take some of our money as well! :wrf:

If this were still the United States, we'd be celebrating the little banks and businesses that stepped in where the giant ones fell, hiring whatever competent people they might find among the rubble and wishing the others good luck.

Instead, we watch as our gov't dumps truckloads of cash onto the fire, then act surprised as it burns; then try to fix the banking and mortgage problems by increasing healthcare for children -- and doing it with straight faces!

Paying people tens of millions of dollars isn't the problem, it's not allowing stupid people to suffer the consequences of their stupidity. That's what would have happened in the United States.

Can't you understand that the government made the right choice in bailing these idiots out? We aren't talking about bailing out Circuit City here. We are talking about financial institutions that if they went under it would directly effect everyone of us. Trillions would be lost in a snap of a finger. The FDIC would need to cough up trillions to account for the people that lost their money.
Keeping the banking industry afloat was much cheaper in the long run.
So I understand the bail-out, but I don't like it one bit. These fuckers will never learn if we just step in and socialize their losses. And this is why I like the pay cap. Hopefully it will be a wake-up call to these greedy bastards. I wouldn't be apposed to holding hearings to see if any of them broke the law. Drag them into congress and make them explain themselves on record so the next round of executives might think twice before going off reservation.

If the financial welfare of this country is going to be in the hands of these large banks, then they need to act responsible. They need to be held accountable.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Can't you understand that the government made the right choice in bailing these idiots out? We aren't talking about bailing out Circuit City here. We are talking about financial institutions that if they went under it would directly effect everyone of us. Trillions would be lost in a snap of a finger. The FDIC would need to cough up trillions to account for the people that lost their money.
Keeping the banking industry afloat was much cheaper in the long run.
So I understand the bail-out, but I don't like it one bit. These fuckers will never learn if we just step in and socialize their losses. And this is why I like the pay cap. Hopefully it will be a wake-up call to these greedy bastards. I wouldn't be apposed to holding hearings to see if any of them broke the law. Drag them into congress and make them explain themselves on record so the next round of executives might think twice before going off reservation.

If the financial welfare of this country is going to be in the hands of these large banks, then they need to act responsible. They need to be held accountable.

The banks got 700 billion. And actually there's 350 billion of that on hold because there was serious issues associated with issuance and traceability.

I see no need for an additional 1.5 trillion dollar throw away, which is what the stealfromus bill is.

The banks have the first bill set aside for them, I say handouts are over.

 

[Alien Allen]

The banks got 700 billion. And actually there's 350 billion of that on hold because there was serious issues associated with issuance and traceability.

I see no need for an additional 1.5 trillion dollar throw away, which is what the stealfromus bill is.

The banks have the first bill set aside for them, I say handouts are over.

yup I agree on holding back the rest. And I would never give it to any without full accountability. That was a farce to have no oversight.

Stealfromus is a good one. I shall Stealfromyou that one.

 

[Tim]

The banks got 700 billion. And actually there's 350 billion of that on hold because there was serious issues associated with issuance and traceability.

I see no need for an additional 1.5 trillion dollar throw away, which is what the stealfromus bill is.

The banks have the first bill set aside for them, I say handouts are over.

I'm with you on this one... I do think that first $350billion made a difference, but I'm not sure they need more at this point. I'm still waiting for good information before making up my mind on this. So depending on what the majority of nonpartisan economists have to say about it, my views may change.

It's frustrating for me not to have enough solid facts to form my own opinion yet. And I don't want to base my opinion on gut reaction or partisan bullshit....

I need facts!

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I'm with you on this one... I do think that first $350billion made a difference, but I'm not sure they need more at this point. I'm still waiting for good information before making up my mind on this. So depending on what the majority of nonpartisan economists have to say about it, my views may change.

It's frustrating for me not to have enough solid facts to form my own opinion yet. And I don't want to base my opinion on gut reaction or partisan bullshit....

I need facts!

If the recent problems have meant anything, it has clearly proved that economists, and analysts really have no idea what's going on behind closed doors.

 

[Tim]

If the recent problems have meant anything, it has clearly proved that economists, and analysts really have no idea what's going on behind closed doors.

Unfortunately I agree... that's why I don't think I will ever get the "facts" on this.

 

[SgtSpike]

I'm not sure we're in the United States anymore, GP. WTF are our tax dollars being given to these idiots in the first place?? Oh, you burned through billions in profits, reward stupitidity with pleasure trips and huge bonuses? Here, take some of our money as well! :wrf:

If this were still the United States, we'd be celebrating the little banks and businesses that stepped in where the giant ones fell, hiring whatever competent people they might find among the rubble and wishing the others good luck.

Instead, we watch as our gov't dumps truckloads of cash onto the fire, then act surprised as it burns; then try to fix the banking and mortgage problems by increasing healthcare for children -- and doing it with straight faces!

Paying people tens of millions of dollars isn't the problem, it's not allowing stupid people to suffer the consequences of their stupidity. That's what would have happened in the United States.

Exactly. Bailing them out was NOT the answer, because it'll just teach company leaders that failing doesn't really mean anything. I don't care if it's hard on us to let companies fail, IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, else we're just going to see the same thing happening in the future, which is CEO's and boards not caring what happens to their company because they'll just get bailed out by the government.

Same with people. People have taken loans out that are far more than they can afford, and now that they're broke and going bankrupt, what do they get? Another freakin bailout!

There's seriously no such thing as personal responsibility in this world today. No one is required to own up to their own actions. If you make a mistake, that's fine, do it again, because taxpayers will pay for your mistakes every time. :thumbup

 

[groundpounder]

...And I don't want to base my opinion on gut reaction or partisan bullshit....

*grabs chest Fred Sanford-style*

'Lizabeth! It's me! This is the Big One! I'm comin' home!

...I don't care if it's hard on us to let companies fail, IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN...

I'm laying dollars to donuts that you have a hard time putting your mind around "hard on us" in this situation.

Razor sharp revisionist history tells us that the government should have had measures to step in and prop things up back in '29 in order to avoid The Great Depression, you know, that thing where tens of thousands of families were out on the streets, homelessness increased over sevenfold (over 2 million people) international economic activity fell by more than 70%, it affected virtually every country on the planet, unemployment was higher than 25% (15 million out of work)


you know why that ain't happenin' now? You're finally getting some of the government you've paid for. Be thankful.

Or you could try it on for size. Start yourself up a Hooverville and invite all of your family and friends over. I'd say let us know how that works out for you, but you wouldn't have electricity (let alone the internet), running water, solid roof over your head (Hoovervilles are made out of boxes), protection from the elements, food or the ability to cook it on anything but an open fire, or a pot to piss in.

That needs to happen, eh? :thumbup

I'm all for personal and economic responsibility. Now ain't the time to teach that lesson, though.

 

[boombala]

SgtSpike wrote:

"I completely agree that any CEOs or other executives that wasn't reporting their financials properly should be jailed, just like the Enron guys and WorldCom, etc. If there's another situation like that, then by all means, jail them! But as far as I am aware, there HASN'T been any of those situations lately, especially with the introduction of the Sarbanes-Oxley act. If you could point me to a few of these corrupt executives who have lied about their financials, by all means, please do, because I'm interested to read about it." (bolding mine)
---------------------

I think we may have an answer to your request soon.

FBI expects number of major financial bailout fraud cases to rise
By Josh Meyer
7:50 PM PST, February 11, 2009

Reporting from Washington -- Despite an expected wave of fraud in the trillion-dollar bailout that aims to stop the ongoing financial meltdown, federal law enforcement officials told Congress on Wednesday that they have nowhere near the level of resources to combat it.

Top FBI and Justice Department officials said they believed mortgage fraud and other types of corporate criminal behavior has contributed to the economic tailspin. And they said they already have more than 2,300 open investigations into suspected illegal financial activity -- including 38 probes specifically linked to the crisis.

Those investigations are already straining the resources of the FBI and the Justice Department, FBI Deputy Director John Pistole and Acting Assistant Atty. Gen. Rita Glavin said in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

But the problems will worsen exponentially as the economy plunges, and as the Obama administration and Congress spend more than $1 trillion in various bailout and stimulus packages in an effort to forestall foreclosures, corporate bankruptcies and a prolonged economic depression, they said.

Pistole said he expected the number of major investigations to rise into the many hundreds, focusing on big-name companies that "everybody knows about," and to be similar in scope and complexity to the massive probe of energy company Enron Corp. after its collapse in 2001.

Rest of article here:

FBI expects number of major financial bailout fraud cases to rise - Los Angeles Times

 

[SgtSpike]

I'm laying dollars to donuts that you have a hard time putting your mind around "hard on us" in this situation.

Razor sharp revisionist history tells us that the government should have had measures to step in and prop things up back in '29 in order to avoid The Great Depression, you know, that thing where tens of thousands of families were out on the streets, homelessness increased over sevenfold (over 2 million people) international economic activity fell by more than 70%, it affected virtually every country on the planet, unemployment was higher than 25% (15 million out of work)


you know why that ain't happenin' now? You're finally getting some of the government you've paid for. Be thankful.

Or you could try it on for size. Start yourself up a Hooverville and invite all of your family and friends over. I'd say let us know how that works out for you, but you wouldn't have electricity (let alone the internet), running water, solid roof over your head (Hoovervilles are made out of boxes), protection from the elements, food or the ability to cook it on anything but an open fire, or a pot to piss in.

That needs to happen, eh? :thumbup

I'm all for personal and economic responsibility. Now ain't the time to teach that lesson, though.

This isn't government I've paid for! The government I've paid for is supposed to go to things like police officers and public road systems.

I'll leave my opinion at this: I completely disagree with the idea in principle. In reality, I still disagree, but we'll have to see how it all pans out. I doubt that these stimulus packages and bailouts are going to help more now than they will hurt us in the future for going into more debt.

The current national debt (BEFORE Obama's plan) is around $10 trillion. And we want to increase it by 10% in one shot? That is absolutely staggering! Can you wrap your mind around what kind of repercussions are going to surround a national debt that keeps increasing like this?

SgtSpike wrote:

"I completely agree that any CEOs or other executives that wasn't reporting their financials properly should be jailed, just like the Enron guys and WorldCom, etc. If there's another situation like that, then by all means, jail them! But as far as I am aware, there HASN'T been any of those situations lately, especially with the introduction of the Sarbanes-Oxley act. If you could point me to a few of these corrupt executives who have lied about their financials, by all means, please do, because I'm interested to read about it." (bolding mine)
---------------------

I think we may have an answer to your request soon.

FBI expects number of major financial bailout fraud cases to rise
By Josh Meyer
7:50 PM PST, February 11, 2009

Reporting from Washington -- Despite an expected wave of fraud in the trillion-dollar bailout that aims to stop the ongoing financial meltdown, federal law enforcement officials told Congress on Wednesday that they have nowhere near the level of resources to combat it.

Top FBI and Justice Department officials said they believed mortgage fraud and other types of corporate criminal behavior has contributed to the economic tailspin. And they said they already have more than 2,300 open investigations into suspected illegal financial activity -- including 38 probes specifically linked to the crisis.

Those investigations are already straining the resources of the FBI and the Justice Department, FBI Deputy Director John Pistole and Acting Assistant Atty. Gen. Rita Glavin said in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee.

But the problems will worsen exponentially as the economy plunges, and as the Obama administration and Congress spend more than $1 trillion in various bailout and stimulus packages in an effort to forestall foreclosures, corporate bankruptcies and a prolonged economic depression, they said.

Pistole said he expected the number of major investigations to rise into the many hundreds, focusing on big-name companies that "everybody knows about," and to be similar in scope and complexity to the massive probe of energy company Enron Corp. after its collapse in 2001.

Rest of article here:

FBI expects number of major financial bailout fraud cases to rise - Los Angeles Times

Indeed, we'll see what happens. I'm just saying that the vast majority of CEO's are not crooks, and actually do care about the company they work for and the people in it.

 

[Accountable]

Can't you understand that the government made the right choice in bailing these idiots out? We aren't talking about bailing out Circuit City here. We are talking about financial institutions that if they went under it would directly effect everyone of us. Trillions would be lost in a snap of a finger. The FDIC would need to cough up trillions to account for the people that lost their money.
Keeping the banking industry afloat was much cheaper in the long run.
So I understand the bail-out, but I don't like it one bit. These fuckers will never learn if we just step in and socialize their losses. And this is why I like the pay cap. Hopefully it will be a wake-up call to these greedy bastards. I wouldn't be apposed to holding hearings to see if any of them broke the law. Drag them into congress and make them explain themselves on record so the next round of executives might think twice before going off reservation.

If the financial welfare of this country is going to be in the hands of these large banks, then they need to act responsible. They need to be held accountable.

You've bought into the panic hype. Remember back when this first happened. The pundits and experts were discussing bankruptcy as a valid option. That's what should have happened. As for the pay caps, they're not retroactive, so the worst of these fuckers aren't affected by it. The lesson to be learned is that if you scream early enough, you can get to the trough first. If you wait, the pickins won't be as good.

 

[Accountable]

I'm all for personal and economic responsibility. Now ain't the time to teach that lesson, though.

Who should we teach the lesson to then? Our kids? Our grandkids? That's who will be paying the bill.

 

[SgtSpike]

Accountable, I'm glad that you've joined up here. It's nice to have another sensible mind pandering around on these forums.

 

[Accountable]

Gee, thanks, Spike.

 

[groundpounder]

Gee, thanks, Spike.

I'm not too sure I'd be jumping on that bandwagon of praise there, fella.

SgtSpike would rather live in a carboard box

 

[Peter Parka]

I'm not too sure I'd be jumping on that bandwagon of praise there, fella.

SgtSpike would rather live in a carboard box

Depends on whether he paid for the said cardboard box himself or not though.

 

[Accountable]

we can believe in

 

[SgtSpike]

I'm not too sure I'd be jumping on that bandwagon of praise there, fella.

SgtSpike would rather live in a carboard box

Lol, why do you say that?

 

[groundpounder]

Lol, why do you say that?

because of this

...I don't care if it's hard on us to let companies fail, IT NEEDS TO HAPPEN...