NYT- “Obama New And Not Improved”

[GraceAbounds]

Obamaspeak

We got Bush because the Democrats had putrid candidates. Now they have one that speaks pretty but is so fully of socialist bullshit ideas it is scary.

:homo:

 

[Minor Axis]

Obamaspeak

This is called enabling. Accept anything if it fits the picture. The guy is inexperienced and full back tracking. Apparently many are mesmerized by the spin. You would think after going thru the last 7 years of spin that one would give a shit and not be so accepting. But that happens when we get garbage for candidates. We got Bush because the Democrats had putrid candidates. Now they have one that speaks pretty but is so fully of socialist bullshit ideas it is scary.

I could not disagree with you more. When Bill Clinton was in office the economy was great. Ever since then it's been a slow downhill slide but all you conservative types are thrilled because your inept Party has been in charge. There was absolutely nothing wrong with Gore from my perspective. And if you bother to remember, the election was right down the middle, some say the election was stolen which after I've seen how this corrupt Administration operates would be no surprise at all.

Bush never had a mandate from the country. We got Bush because the Republican party did a most excellent job scaring people, appealing to the lowest common denominator, targeting single issue voters, "abortion", "guns", "religion", and "taxes", and running a scam of come join us, we share your values, when they do nothing of the sort, leading many working class folks into believing they can actually be full fledged members of the Republican party when really they are just pawns set up to make the rich richer. Then there is always the twisted patriotism/passionate conservatism movement which was a scam from the start.

It amazes me that this country has sunk to the lowest point since the 1950's and somehow you think Bush is a great leader and the Republican party are saviors when all the facts point in the opposite direction. Anyone who gives a damn about the U.S. economy should be more alarmed than any time in your life.

 

[groundpounder]

You need to evaluate the promise and decide how important it was. Personally I'd rather see him get elected so it's not a big deal to me. He changed his mind. Was anyone disenfranchised?...

I'd love to see you say this if he were Republican. I'm thinking NOT.

lol and a black muslim president... whats wrong with that picture?

lordy lordy lordy. Are you registered to vote?

As far as controlling Congress, the toilet has been clogged with more and more crap over the last 7 years. It's going to take less Republican's in Congress and one heck of a plunger to get it flushing properly. I can all ready see it, the Republican's have totally screwed up this economy for many reasons but by mostly enabling a wreckless war we can't afford. And when the Democrats take over, you'll be blaming them for that too.

bolded the irony.
see it, believe it.

Hey before you start spewing shit maybe you should get your facts straight. God I hate ignorant people.

:clap

I don't really care if he did change his mind, he's still better than McCain. A monkey would be better than McCain.

I'll take a slightly dishonest Obama over any kind of McCain....It's still a matter of the lesser evil but McCain is so far down there that a monkey would be better.

I love this kind of "open-minded" thinking. :unsure:

Liars have only ever been held accountable throughout history when the've been on the losing side. :nod:

PP, one of your finest efforts :clap

 

[Minor Axis]

I'd love to see you say this if he were Republican. I'm thinking NOT.

McCain has all ready broken promises. I've not said a word about it.

 

[gillibean]

I love this kind of "open-minded" thinking. :unsure:

Unless Obama is lying about his stance on women's rights, He is a better choice than McCain. If he is lying and we find this before the election, I'll be voting for a third party candidate. If that's closed minded, I'll take it with a compliment.

 

[groundpounder]

McCain has all ready broken promises. I've not said a word about it.

until now. Name em

Unless Obama is lying about his stance on women's rights, He is a better choice than McCain. If he is lying and we find this before the election, I'll be voting for a third party candidate. If that's closed minded, I'll take it with a compliment.

it wasn't...:cool
to be that closed off to one candidate is absurd

 

[gillibean]

I'm closed off to him because I hate nearly everything he stands for. (I can't think of anything he's said or done that I would support but anything is possible.)

 

[Minor Axis]

until now. Name em

Here's an easy one: John McCain announced his support for offshore drilling, which he opposed as recently as January. Did he change his mind or break a promise?

And there was something about McCain's Primary Campaign financing. A quick google pulled up this The Nation link.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Here's an easy one: John McCain announced his support for offshore drilling, which he opposed as recently as January. Did he change his mind or break a promise?

People change their minds. I know as I get older, more mature, more educated there are many things I change my mind on. I would hope all our representatives grow, learn, etc.

It would bother me if a person that never changed there mind on anything like Bush on many issues.

I am glad McCain changed his mind on this. We need to focus on a solution to this energy crisis, not have more of the same.

 

[Tim]

Trying to drill our way out of this problem IS more of the same.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Yep, exactly.

 

[Minor Axis]

People change their minds. I know as I get older, more mature, more educated there are many things I change my mind on. I would hope all our representatives grow, learn, etc.

It would bother me if a person that never changed there mind on anything like Bush on many issues.

I am glad McCain changed his mind on this. We need to focus on a solution to this energy crisis, not have more of the same.

So did Obama change his mind or break a promise?

 

[gillibean]

Here's an easy one: John McCain announced his support for offshore drilling, which he opposed as recently as January. Did he change his mind or break a promise?

And there was something about McCain's Primary Campaign financing. A quick google pulled up this The Nation link.

It's a miracle! I agree with McCain on something!

 

[Alien Allen]

Trying to drill our way out of this problem IS more of the same.

Not all true if it is followed up with some aggressive exploration for alternative energy sources. We need drill NOW to help to curb the speculators. Matters none that it will take years to see the oil and gas. If speculators know more is coming down the road it should cool there heels. It won't lower current gas prices but should help to curb the trend of rising costs. And we need to do that because so much is effected by high gas and diesel prices as far as shipping plus all the other uses such as home heating.

To simply dismiss further drilling IS really more of the same. We would be seeing the fruits of the new sources if Clinton had not vetoed expanding the drilling. People need to get over the big oil conspiracy. There is none. The problem is far more complex than merely saying big oil is robbing us.

 

[Tim]

Not all true if it is followed up with some aggressive exploration for alternative energy sources. We need drill NOW to help to curb the speculators. Matters none that it will take years to see the oil and gas. If speculators know more is coming down the road it should cool there heels. It won't lower current gas prices but should help to curb the trend of rising costs. And we need to do that because so much is effected by high gas and diesel prices as far as shipping plus all the other uses such as home heating.

To simply dismiss further drilling IS really more of the same. We would be seeing the fruits of the new sources if Clinton had not vetoed expanding the drilling. People need to get over the big oil conspiracy. There is none. The problem is far more complex than merely saying big oil is robbing us.

They already have millions of leased acres they can be drilling on but are not
They already have thousands of drilling permits but they aren't using them
There has not been a request from oil companies to build a new refinery in decades

So how is it going to help to give them more land when they aren't drilling on the land they already have?
How will it help to give them more drilling permits when they have thousands they aren't using?
And if it were a problem of refining the oil, then why don't they request a permit to build a new refinery?

You need to understand that this argument of off shore drilling is a disingenuous one at best. Demand is fast out pacing supply and giving out more drilling permits that won't be used will do nothing to help. If the oil companies were really in trouble and needed more supply, they would use the land and permits they already have... only makes sense.

 

[GraceAbounds]

So did Obama change his mind or break a promise?

??? Don't know what you are getting at. I haven't said shinola about Obama in this thread except that he is basically so far left that he is a total socialist.

Not all true if it is followed up with some aggressive exploration for alternative energy sources.

I could go with this as well.

The problem is far more complex than merely saying big oil is robbing us.

Yes it is. The problem is that we are robbing ourselves by thinking that more oil is the answer and NOT aggressively seeking out other energy resources.

I see us going in that direction (seeking other energy sources), but not fast enough. But then again when gets to the point it is hurting Americans to the point where they are really feeling it in a bad way financially, nothing is going to be fast enough imo. We want the problem fixed and we want it fixed now.

 

[gillibean]

??? Don't know what you are getting at. I haven't said shinola about Obama in this thread except that he is basically so far left that he is a total socialist.


I could go with this as well.


Yes it is. The problem is that we are robbing ourselves by thinking that more oil is the answer and NOT aggressively seeking out other energy resources.

I see us going in that direction (seeking other energy sources), but not fast enough. But then again when gets to the point it is hurting Americans to the point where they are really feeling it in a bad way financially, nothing is going to be fast enough imo. We want the problem fixed and we want it fixed now.

He's not that far left Grace. Take a look at the political compass. He's practically conservative from where I'm sitting (right next to Ghandi and the Dalai Lama).

 

[Alien Allen]

I could go with this as well.


Yes it is. The problem is that we are robbing ourselves by thinking that more oil is the answer and NOT aggressively seeking out other energy resources.

I see us going in that direction (seeking other energy sources), but not fast enough. But then again when gets to the point it is hurting Americans to the point where they are really feeling it in a bad way financially, nothing is going to be fast enough imo. We want the problem fixed and we want it fixed now.

I don't see any viable alternative that is going to arrive before the oil crisis worsens significantly. As I said it needs to be a two tiered approach with a firm commitment. Instead of the next space exploration goal such as going back to the moon or mars or development a different space shuttle we should spend that money on developing fission, fusion, solar, wind, nuclear and what ever other option is viable.

 

[nTejas]

what has Obama really done to warrant the highest office in the land other than give a few good big arena tele-prompt read speeches .......with catch words "hope" and "change"........it seems most of the frenzied Obama fans would cheer regardless of what Obama actually says.........."the good people of <enter your state>........"hope"......."change"......"the planet is in peril"........yeahhhhh......woooooooo.....rawwwwwww.........

seems that some Obama supporters would vote for him regardless what he has done or says....it may be a good idea to know what "hope" and "change" he is referring to

 

[Minor Axis]

??? Don't know what you are getting at. I haven't said shinola about Obama in this thread except that he is basically so far left that he is a total socialist.

Someone was pinging on Obama for breaking a campaign pledge. I said McCain had broken promises. I was called on it. I made my comment about McCain changing his mind. You said you were happy that McCain changed his mind. I was asking you if you thought there was a difference in the two examples?

Obama is not a socialist no matter what news source tells you that. (sigh)