New Photography League
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In post #50, I replied to a question HK asked regarding who decides what's allowed for a round. As the league 'overseer' I provide general guidance and part of that covers minimal photoshopping.
FAQ addendum.
Minimal photoshopping - what is considered acceptable and what is not?
For clarity, minimal photoshopping is not about doing 1 thing or 2 things. It's not the amount of things done to a picture that is considered 'minimal' - but the effect on the picture.
Acceptable uses of photoshopping include minimal brightness, contrast and sharpness/blurring. Anything that produces an effect similar brightness, contrast, sharpness and blurring is also acceptable. The effect has to be subtle and not something that would immediately be seen by any outside observer as having been largely 'photoshopped'.
Ultimately, the decision IS down to the host to decide so any pictures that have been accepted are fine to vote upon.
FAQ addendum.
Minimal photoshopping - what is considered acceptable and what is not?
For clarity, minimal photoshopping is not about doing 1 thing or 2 things. It's not the amount of things done to a picture that is considered 'minimal' - but the effect on the picture.
Acceptable uses of photoshopping include minimal brightness, contrast and sharpness/blurring. Anything that produces an effect similar brightness, contrast, sharpness and blurring is also acceptable. The effect has to be subtle and not something that would immediately be seen by any outside observer as having been largely 'photoshopped'.
Ultimately, the decision IS down to the host to decide so any pictures that have been accepted are fine to vote upon.
freakofnature
Vampire
So basically what you're saying is that this photo that I submitted in a previous round was actually unacceptable?
We're not allowed to make a photo B&W or sepia?
We're not allowed to make a photo B&W or sepia?
I shouldn't have to lay down everything in black and white (no pun intended) but really it's down to common sense. If I have to lay down hard fast rules, because there is such disagreement on what constitutes 'minimal' then I shall. If that means certain pictures are not allowed because they fall foul of the rules - then although past contests are obviously unaffected - any pictures going forward would be.
In the case of B&W, Sepia those I class as 'subtle' effects because the attention of the viewer is not drawn to the effect - but to the picture as a whole. If the first thing someone notices is the effect rather than picture - something is wrong. Subtlety is key. The picture may not be a bad picture - it can still be excellent but some rules have to be in place otherwise there is the potential for some people to go beyond the bounds of what is considered 'minimal' and possibly put some of those who do not photoshop at all to a disadvantage.
Anyway, as an example of what I consider acceptable:
Original Image:
Edit 1:
Edit 2:
Edit 3:
Edit 1 is perfectly acceptable. 2 and 3 are not. There, the effect is a pronounced affect upon the image where overuse of selective exposure compensation has produced an effect that is significantly different from the original.
What has been done in 1,2 and 3 that are NOT visible (unless you have awesome eyes) - a touch of sharpening (via the 'clarity' function in Lightroom) to compensate for the camera's natural tendency towards a softer image.
What has not been done but would be perfectly acceptable is the removal of the dust spots. There is one big one (visible in the edited variants particularly) and that can spoil a picture so those things are fine to remove - but not things like removal of power lines etc - that's not fine.
Minderella
Active Member
i think the thing is that "minimal" edits are different for different people. i think if there are those that are going to get annoyed and uppity about editing, you shouldn't allow any editing at all. it's only fair, right?
in the future, i think rules should be clear and defined so as to leave no room for this type of discussion to happen again, because people are being made to feel bad when they shouldn't be and it's not cool.
in the future, i think rules should be clear and defined so as to leave no room for this type of discussion to happen again, because people are being made to feel bad when they shouldn't be and it's not cool.
then why did you or anyone else not say anything about my F1-F4 entries?
what you consider "minimal" i consider non existent. my "minimal" is nothing that is digitally created. enhancing a photo with color contrast and vignets and background blurring and sharpening is all in the realm of minimal to me. its all basic stuff.
every entry i have submitted would be disqualified by these new standards yet no one said anything?
Minderella
Active Member
also, ftr--if you had entered number 3, i wouldn't have thought that it was photoshopped at all.
im considering not even entering the last two "competitions" because im kind of irked how this is all playing out and how people are being treated.
im considering not even entering the last two "competitions" because im kind of irked how this is all playing out and how people are being treated.
Come on, this doesn't need to get out of hand. I allowed the picture, and as far as I'm concerned, it's in there now, if anyone thinks it doesn't fit the criteria then no one's forcing them to vote for it. I've seen pictures in other rounds that I didn't think really fit the theme for example - I just voted for something else.
It's only a competition for tokenz between amateurs
it's meant to be fun. All I've seen so far is a couple of people comment that they weren't sure about the editing on entry number two. There's been no suggestion that it be removed or the photographer be disqualified. It seems that the rules could have been clearer - never mind, live and learn. No harm done.
It's only a competition for tokenz between amateurs
it's meant to be fun. All I've seen so far is a couple of people comment that they weren't sure about the editing on entry number two. There's been no suggestion that it be removed or the photographer be disqualified. It seems that the rules could have been clearer - never mind, live and learn. No harm done.The standard of minimal photoshopping has been there from Ian's competitions all the way through. I've continued it in the league I am running. The only regret I have is not explaining it fully, assuming everyone was on the same page. For that, I apologise.
As for your previous entries - I've already said that the effect must not be noticed above the picture. I guess in your previous entries, the picture has been noticed above and beyond the effect - which is I assume what you want people to vote for your entry upon.
Ultimately though, no matter what rules and clarifications I have put in place - the final decision to accept a picture or not doesn't lie with me, but with the host - that hasn't changed.
That is indeed, your prerogative. I hope you do continue on as you have been a fantastic contestant thusfar and in with a very good chance of the overall win - but I am not going back on these rule clarifications so ultimately it's down to you of course. Bear in mind too what I said about the final decision being with the hosts.
I realise this discussion stemming from that picture can lead to a souring effect - of course it can. We're only human - we're bound to have that souring feeling. I'm running this league purely for a sense of fun for the participants and fun for me to run too. I don't want people not to have fun deciding and submitting on their pictures but I hope you understand it cannot be a 'free for all' and that there has to be some rules and guidance laid down. Sorry for being the potential party pooper here.
Don't take the blame on yourself, Siph. I'm the one that pointed it out initially and some people followed and agreed. I realize that a lot of the entrants are new to the site and they have been a fantastic addition. I personally didn't notice any effects in any other photos...this is the only one I have.
The fact that it's being taken personally, though, is silly...only HK and the photographer knows who the photo belongs to (although based on comments from some people it's pretty much narrowed down). As I said in my original post, I thought it was beyond the scope of the minimal editing rule and the pictures I've seen submitted in my 6 1/2 years here. I simply didn't vote for it. :dunno
The fact that it's being taken personally, though, is silly...only HK and the photographer knows who the photo belongs to (although based on comments from some people it's pretty much narrowed down). As I said in my original post, I thought it was beyond the scope of the minimal editing rule and the pictures I've seen submitted in my 6 1/2 years here. I simply didn't vote for it. :dunno
Minderella
Active Member
of course its being taken personally! its not silly in the least bit. someones picture has been called out for "too much photoshopping", which said person doesn't believe is true, which has caused the rules to be "tightened" basically at the end of a competition. absolutely it would be taken personally and said person would feel like they are being picked out of a group and criticized and essentially being blamed by, yes, only a few people, for "not following the rules" (which fyi, weren't very concrete to begin with and left open to lots of personal interpretation).
its just like lots of people getting butthurt that their pics havent been getting votes.
its just like lots of people getting butthurt that their pics havent been getting votes.
Jezzebelle
Active Member
LOL this.
freakofnature
Vampire
This reminds me of the snafu that happened when HK won a competition with a photo of a grape with a sad face drawn on it. 
The person who submitted the photo in question this time around should take being called out as a compliment. It's only the really good photos that get picked on. No one cares that I submitted a colour photo in B&W because it didn't pose a threat.
The person who submitted the photo in question this time around should take being called out as a compliment. It's only the really good photos that get picked on. No one cares that I submitted a colour photo in B&W because it didn't pose a threat.
Jezzebelle
Active Member
This reminds me of the snafu that happened when HK won a competition with a photo of a grape with a sad face drawn on it.
OMG I am such a sucker for faces drawn on things! WHERE ARE MY EGGIE 366 PICS!?! :mad
acctnt shan
Active Member
Stop picking on me! *sadface*
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