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Johnfromokc

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Contrary to joe-the-dog-whisperer's "expert" opinion on all things canine, the statistics bear out that pitts are a dangerous breed known to turn on people and especially children. Insurance companies operate on mathematical statistics and probabilities and many refuse to insure owners of dangerous dogs for good reason.

And in my non-expert opinion, it's not very intelligent to own dogs like that - how smart is it to risk your financial livelihood and possibly your personal freedom to stroke your ego owning a pitt bull or other known dangerous breed?

Here is some interesting information about pitt bulls:

http://www.dog-bite-law-center.com/pit_bull_attacks.html

Pit Bull Dog Attacks

Brief Facts about these Dangerous and Widely Banned Animals

In one study sponsored by the US Governement Centers For Disease Control it was reported that 32% of all dog related killings of human beings in the United States are caused by Pit Bulls attacks, yet Pit Bulls constitute only 2% of all dogs. 70% of those mauling deaths were of children.

According this large federal government study conducted over a 20 year period the Centers for Disease Control concluded that Attacks by pit bulls accounted for one third of the fatal dog attacks in the United States. This study also cited the disproportionate threat these dogs pose to children. Children, according to the study, are the most vulnerable victims in dog attacks, with those under the age of 14 accounting for 42 percent of all dog bite injuries. Most of the mauled victims are between the ages of five and nine.

The ownership of pit bulls should be opposed. This breed of dog is dangerous to children, adults, police and erodes community safety and order. These dogs should be banned and the public educated about the dangers these dogs pose. We can work to end the pit bull threat only by speaking out against them and their fanatical owners. Become active in your community and work on laws to ban pit bulls to protect our children and to promote a safe community for all.

And I don't disagre with these opinions:

Pit Bulls: Deadly Breed Most Responsible for Death and Maimings of Humans and Other Animals

On average about 27 people will be killed by a dog each year in the US, 19 of the homicide victims will be children under the age of 15. The dog that causes 3 out of 4 attacks on kids will be the "loving" family dog, such as the "friendly companion" pit bull with the wonderful disposition. Children attacked by these breeds are literally torn apart with horrifying injuries that are almost beyond words. Those that survive are often maimed for life.

What accounts for the popularity of pit bulls?

The dogs fearsome image and reputation certainly seems to have a great deal to do with it. These dogs are particularly popular in the inner cities have become part of hip hop culture and style, leading many opponents of pit bull bans to cite racism as a possible motive for the proposed bans. But the dogs have made life for residents in these places more difficult, as the owners use them as tools of intimidation, or wield totally inadequate or no control over them, leading to bites, maulings and deaths in areas with enough social ills. Additionally a large subculture (recently exposured when NFL star quarterback Michael Vick was indicted for promoting dog fighting operations) has grown up around these dogs that enjoys the spectacle of dogs ripping each other apart. Fighting skill, power, cool, hipness of "Pits" are concepts that have engaged the popular imagination and led to the proliferation of Pit Bulls as pets in otherwise sane and healthy America. Many of these owners are unaware of the origins of their desire to own a pit bull, but the taste for such animals has its roots in the cultural debris of American Hip Hop.

Owners are the Problem: True- They Are Crazy (Most of them)

Unfortunately pit bulls and related breeds have spread to middle class America where they are revered as family "pets," it seems that many of the owners are as tenacious as the dogs themselves as they enjoy defending their cherished animal against the vituperations in the press and the (until recently) mild ones such as those found on this web site. Indeed over the past five years we have received more ill will and hate filled emails from pit bull owners than we have actual dog bite victims (most emails to this site are from irate pit bull owners!). Although one case we received on this web site was a child mauled to death---by a pit bull. So the raving emails of the pit bull owners of these supposedly loving dogs reaches to a truly tragic level. I will say that a fair number of the less aggressive people sending email may be owners with a geniune affection for a pet- however the taste for such pets and violent defense of them is misplaced affection. These dogs are bred killers and have no place in a family home no matter how innocent or friendly a particular dog may seem. The experience of the United Kingdom mentioned below- a country of some 60 million people is instructive on this point.

That the owners of these dogs have alot of "issues" is evidenced by the volume and content of the email we get ( I have started to post a few examples at the bottom of this page). Although anecdotal we conclude from their own words to us on this site that a large number of these pit bull owners are people who have no qualifications to own any animal. In fact the majority of the hate filled email we received over the past five years was from a simple one sentence reference on this site to the fact that pit bulls are the most likely breed to bite. We have since researched the issue and expanded the commentary and information about the deadly nature of pit bulls on this site in direct response to the unremitting string of hate filled emails we get from misanthrope pit bull lovers, who we presume prefer to cuddle with butch and his spiked collar, rather than the 5 year old child in Chicago whose skull was crushed in the jaws of such a beast.

It would be merely tragic-comedy if these pit bull propagandists where ignored, but they are vocal in opposing legislation that would protect children from cruel deaths and they influence real world policy.

Ban Pit Bulls: More Laws Needed: Already Banned in England- When will US Policy Catch Up?

More enlightened countries such as England have already acted against cultural trends that led to widespread private ownership of pit bulls, a phenomenon we now have entrenched in the US. The Dangerous Dogs Act has been law in the UK since 1991! The law was introduced in response to numerous high profile incidents of serious injury or death resulting from attacks by aggressive and uncontrolled dogs, usually on children. These incidents received heavy media attention, which resulted in widespread public outrage over the keeping of dangerous dogs such as Pit bulls and led to the legislative response through passage of the Act banning them.

Several breeds in particular were identified by the Act including those dogs identified as Pit Bull Terriers.

It is illegal to own any of these dogs in England and the UK including Pit Bulls without specific exemption from a court of law.

The dogs that are privately held are required to be muzzled and kept on a leash in public, they must be registered and insured, neutered and receive microchip implants. The Act also bans the breeding and exchange of pit bulls. The numbers of dog attacks and serious incidents has dropped dramatically all across the UK. If only the US had such laws we could save countless lives of children!

I also note that not one of the hundreds of emails we received defending Pit Bulls mentions the fact that a country of 60 Million people voted to ban these dogs, nor do they bother to regard this as at all relevant. Such a ban is inconvient evidence to their "defenses" of these dogs to say the least. You Disagree with the UK ban? Do you have any facts, studies, agruments about the ban and its results? Let's hear them. Ban Pit Bulls!!!
 
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Johnfromokc

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You know ... this got me thinking.

The ONLY dog I have ever been bitten by is a Chow. Three different Chows, three different times.

... Not a fan of those now. LOL!

Chow-Chow.jpg

Chows are high up on insurance company shit lists:

http://www.edgarsnyder.com/dog-bite/dangerous-dogs.html

Insurance Companies Blacklist Dangerous Dog Breeds

As a result of the high cost of dog bite liability claims, some insurance companies have blacklisted certain breeds – meaning they can refuse to extend coverage to homeowners and renters who live with these potentially dangerous dogs.

Blacklisted dog breeds may include the following:


Insurance companies aren’t the only ones blacklisting breeds. Some homeowner associations, housing developments, and apartment buildings have also banned certain dog breeds. Several cities have passed breed-specific legislation (BSL) that prohibits people from owning a certain breed.

Since there is no national standard, you should check with your local government and whoever owns the property where you live to find out if they have any restrictions on dangerous dog breeds.
 

Joe the meek

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Contrary to joe-the-dog-whisperer's "expert" opinion on all things canine, the statistics bear out that pitts are a dangerous breed known to turn on people and especially children. Insurance companies operate on mathematical statistics and probabilities and many refuse to insure owners of dangerous dogs for good reason.

And in my non-expert opinion, it's not very intelligent to own dogs like that - how smart is it to risk your financial livelihood and possibly your personal freedom to stroke your ego owning a pitt bull or other known dangerous breed?

John

I'm far from a dog whisperer, but I have no doubt that I've worked with more dogs than yourself and have more experience than you on this subject.

Are the insurance companies going to drop Muslim clients in fear that they're going to blow their houses up? LOL Sorry, for those who don't know, John thinks that those who practice the Muslim faith must kill non believers and that ALL Muslim's are terrorists (or have your recent "enlightenment" years change those views John;)).

"Stereotype" John, today's word is "Stereotype"

I use to think along the lines of your limited thinking on some breeds of dogs until I got to work with them and have had them become a part of my family (sorry, our dogs just don't stay outside, and we do socialize with them on a regular basis, because if you don't, I don't see the point in having a dog).

I've also noticed some of the same circumstances that Panacea has mentioned per the topic of Bully Breeds.
 

Mercury

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Wait, boxers are on the blacklist? I love them! :(

I still want a Boston :willy_nilly:

My brother has a boxer ... he is an extremely loving, friendly dog. Cracks me up that they named him Brando after Marlon Brando because of his face LOL!

I do remember having issues with boxers as a kid though ...

I wish that Huskies and Malamutes were more calmer ... they are such beautiful dogs. Would have liked to have one of those but will wait until the kids are grown.
 

Mercury

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PUPPY UPDATE:

So .... Chandler (which I still make fun of my wife for naming him that) is opening up quite a bit and acting more like a puppy. He still has had NO accidents in the house (knock on wood) and continues to go outside! :) Bad news is that he is chewing on ANYTHING that is on the ground. What I have been doing is when I see him chewing on something he is not supposed to be chewing, I say a firm, "No!" and replace the item with one of his toys. I have a feeling this is going to be a long battle but just like with kids ... CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!! LOL!

He also loves to "nom" on the hands and fingers when petting or playing with him. This typical puppy behavior, while cute, is a tough habit to break as well. I have to remind other family members to NOT allow him to do that as with anything, it has to be constant or he will become confused on what he can and can't do.

Besides those two typical puppy things ... he is doing really well. I am amazed at how quickly he has become housebroken! He loves the kids, has a good schedule and doesn't fart that much! :thumbup
 

Joe the meek

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He also loves to "nom" on the hands and fingers when petting or playing with him. This typical puppy behavior, while cute, is a tough habit to break as well.

A simple negative stimulus tool can be a small spray bottle filled with water. When the dog shows unwanted behavior, spray a little water on the dogs nose immediately at the time of the unwanted behavior. If you're unlucky, you'll get the rare dog that LOVES water being sprayed on their nose LOL
 

Mercury

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A simple negative stimulus tool can be a small spray bottle filled with water. When the dog shows unwanted behavior, spray a little water on the dogs nose immediately at the time of the unwanted behavior. If you're unlucky, you'll get the rare dog that LOVES water being sprayed on their nose LOL

You know, that crossed my mind with the spray bottle, but then I thought that was only for cats ... I will have to try that.

Now watch him love it! LOL!
 

Joe the meek

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Wait, boxers are on the blacklist? I love them! :(

The only boxers I know will literally lick you to death LOL

I'm surprised Rhodesian Ridgebacks aren't on that list that John provided. Tim Tebow should know better than to want a dog bread for hunting lions as a pet.

Here is the thing about statistics people like John provide to show what dogs are dangerous seem to forget. Statistics can be manipulated and there can be an underlying cause of the statistic itself that the data doesn't provide for. Look at the crime rate in the U.S. One could argue going off of statistics alone that a young black male is more prone to committing a violent crime than a white male of the same age. Does that mean if you're an Afroamerican you're inclined to be more violent due to the color of the your skin alone?
 
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Johnfromokc

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John

I'm far from a dog whisperer, but I have no doubt that I've worked with more dogs than yourself and have more experience than you on this subject.

Yet you make dumbass comparisons like your comparision of a GR mix and a pitt bull. Sorry - not impressed with your experience Joe. I think your love for dogs has blinded you to reality.

Are the insurance companies going to drop Muslim clients in fear that they're going to blow their houses up? LOL Sorry, for those who don't know, John thinks that those who practice the Muslim faith must kill non believers and that ALL Muslim's are terrorists (or have your recent "enlightenment" years change those views John;)).

No - John does not think that. And Joe makes yet another dumbass comparison. Joe is comprehension impared.

"Stereotype" John, today's word is "Stereotype"

I've changed the word of the day to "dumbass" Joe. ;) Stop being one.

I use to think along the lines of your limited thinking on some breeds of dogs until I got to work with them and have had them become a part of my family (sorry, our dogs just don't stay outside, and we do socialize with them on a regular basis, because if you don't, I don't see the point in having a dog).

Well, enlightened one, there is a reason insurance companies have analyzed and sorted the statistics and actuarially categorized dangerous breeds based upon mathematical probability that certain dogs generate more liability than others. They damned sure didn't go to the local self-appointed amature dog rescuer for his opinion on how some poor breeds are simply misunderstood. Financial liabilty trumps emotion every time.

I've also noticed some of the same circumstances that Panacea has mentioned per the topic of Bully Breeds.

And not only that, I am seeing similar irrationality among middle class pitt bull owners, as well as middle class owners of other breeds like Akita's and German Shepards - think about our former forum friends Skurka and Dargo. Funny how assholes like that tend to gravitate toward known dangerous breeds isn't it?
 

Joe the meek

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John

Your premise is that it is the breed that makes the dog dangerous to humans. I happen to think you are wrong.

I don't really care if you're impressed with my experience or not, I will still state the fact that I do have more hands on experience dealing with dogs than you do. Does that make me an expert? Hell no. However, I don't consider myself a parrot repeating "statistics" such as yourself. That said, when was the lasto time you've taken any credited dog behavioral classes? LOL

Funny enough just as you draw the comparisons on how people "draw" themselves to "dangerous breeds", I have people accuse me of the same thing for having bully breeds myself. Funny thing is I didn't go out looking for the breed, I ended up bringing the dog in because the dog found me. It wasn't until AFTER I had "hands on experience" with the bully breed that my opinion has changed somewhat.

This is kind of like the old days when your mantra use to be "all muslims are terrorists", now in this thread it's been changed to "all bully breeds are dangerous".

ANY dog is capable of a "un provoked" attack, the difference being the larger more powerful dog causes more damage.

Before you know it, the insurance companies will be charging a higher premium for those homeowners who own firearms. It only makes sense doesn't it?

As far as your smart ass comment "They damned sure didn't go to the local self-appointed amateur dog rescuer for his opinion on how some poor breeds are simply misunderstood" goes, have any more low blows?
 
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Johnfromokc

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John

Your premise is that it is the breed that makes the dog dangerous to humans. I happen to think you are wrong.

Statistics PROVE you wrong Joe. Like it or not, facts are facts.

However, I don't consider myself a parrot repeating "statistics" such as yourself. That said, when was the last time you've taken any credited dog behavioral classes? LOL

FACT - 50% of all human deaths caused by dog attacks are caused by pitt bulls and rottweilers. Your emotional claim of "misundersood dogs" and equally bullshit claim that "any breed is dangerous" is just that - emotional dog advocate bullshit. Go find us the statistics on how many humans have been killed by golden retrievers and labs.

Oh, and didn't you mean "accredited" dog behaviour courses as opposed to "creditied"? There's that reading comprehension problem again. But you learned a lot I'm sure. You certainly learned to ignore common sense and statistics in favor of propaganda.

Funny enough just as you draw the comparisons on how people "draw" themselves to "dangerous breeds", I have people accuse me of the same thing for having bully breeds myself. Funny thing is I didn't go out looking for the breed, I ended up bringing the dog in because the dog found me. It wasn't until AFTER I had "hands on experience" with the bully breed that my opinion has changed somewhat.

We accidentally wound up owning a pitt bull once - it was abandoned by its idiot owner and took up with our family and loved playing with the kids. But the fact was that he was dangerous as hell to anyone else - and then my insurance agent informed me of the facts of life about pitt bulls - and he was 100% correct.

This is kind of like the old days when your mantra use to be "all muslims are terrorists", now in this thread it's been changed to "all bully breeds are dangerous".

And this is an example of your inability to read and comprehend what people post. That was NEVER my "mantra" about Muslims. Had you actually taken the time to read, comprehend and attempt to understand, you wouldn't make such an asinine comment. But sadly - you read enough to make a shrill counter-post in what amounted to a pissing contest. You were wrong then and you are wrong now. Slow down and pay attention.

ANY dog is capable of a "un provoked" attack, the difference being the larger more powerful dog causes more damage.

There's that statement again. Go ahaead Joe - show us the statistics that prove any breed is equally as dangerous as the insurance list of known dangerous breeds.

Before you know it, the insurance companies will be charging a higher premium for those homeowners who own firearms. It only makes sense doesn't it?

Now this is nothing more than irrational dog rescue advocate propaganda. Insurance actuaries do not make up statistics Joe. The fact is that no insurance company will cover your dumbass for shooting someone or for damaging someones property with your gun. Damn dude - think before you post.

As far as your smart ass comment "They damned sure didn't go to the local self-appointed amateur dog rescuer for his opinion on how some poor breeds are simple misunderstood" goes, my only question is what have YOU done to try and make a difference in this world? Throw $20 to UNICEF and coach your kids baseball team?;)

You didn't expect me to cut you any slack did you? And I feel zero need to publicize what I do to help the downtrodden of society - why do you wear your charity on your sleeves?
 

Joe the meek

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Statistics PROVE you wrong Joe. Like it or not, facts are facts.

Statistics prove that a black man has a greater chance of committing a crime over a white man.

Do I believe that black men are more dangerous than white men? No.

By the way, I had actually changed my post per my own comment about what you do for "charity", but apparently you copied it while I changed it?. It was uncalled for so I deleted it.
 
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