Michael Moore on Democracy Now

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Lol that person is happy to call themselves immoral? Hey I like honest people lol. I'm not afraid to say I like calling myself stupid sometimes...

 

[Alien Allen]

Yeah, um, I checked out those links...they are all just opinion. And every rationally thinking debater knows opinion =/= fact.

One of the links actually criticised Michael Moore himself, as in saying 'Why should a 400 pound man advise us on over-consumption?'. Yeeaaaahhh that's a fallacy you know...you can't critique a theory by attacking the person or their appearance or personality. That's so bloody ignorant and an irrational way of thinking. Just thought I would let you know that!

These links are either a blog post, an opinion shit on a news site or they aren't even rationally written. How are they supposed to be valid or sound? Or acceptable?

You can accuse all you want, but your evidence hardly supports it. A quick Google search and a couple of sites ain't gunna solve it for you.

And Moores bilge is also just opinion

You are mistaken if you think that only blog sites are critical of him.

 

[Minor Axis]

He is an entertainer that lies and distorts to spew his crap

You can take nothing he says seriously with his liberal bias

He is nothing more than another greedy capitalist who whines about others getting rich. He dresses like a slob but has more wealth than one can imagine as a result of his movies. What a hypocrite

More from Fox News at 10pm.

 

[itsmeJonB]

More from Fox News at 10pm.

I'm not a conservative nor a fan of Fox News, and I hate him passionately too

 

[Accountable]

Yeah, um, I checked out those links...they are all just opinion. And every rationally thinking debater knows opinion =/= fact.

One of the links actually criticised Michael Moore himself, as in saying 'Why should a 400 pound man advise us on over-consumption?'. Yeeaaaahhh that's a fallacy you know...you can't critique a theory by attacking the person or their appearance or personality. That's so bloody ignorant and an irrational way of thinking. Just thought I would let you know that!

These links are either a blog post, an opinion shit on a news site or they aren't even rationally written. How are they supposed to be valid or sound? Or acceptable?

You can accuse all you want, but your evidence hardly supports it. A quick Google search and a couple of sites ain't gunna solve it for you.

It's just my prejudice and propensity to stereotype talking, but I'm guessing you don't watch Moore's movies with the same critical eye that you read those links with.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Thanks everyone for jumping on everything I say!


I haven't seen any of his movies...yet.

But I am well aware that what he says (like in the original post in the video) is partially opinion I would say. I'm not silly.

 

[Accountable]

Thanks everyone for jumping on everything I say!

Everyone, meaning Allen and me; and "jumping on" meaning:

And Moores bilge is also just opinion

You are mistaken if you think that only blog sites are critical of him.

It's just my prejudice and propensity to stereotype talking, but I'm guessing you don't watch Moore's movies with the same critical eye that you read those links with.

You're being thin-skinned. I suggest you educate yourself before offering an opinion, and expect that even then people will disagree with you.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I don't see Michael Moore saying things about Obama's appearance in order to try and prove a point, just sayin'. I can have my opinions regardless of education, blah blah blah everyone knows that... When I do eventually watch some of them, I won't be watching it with a biased eye. I'm educated in critical thinking enough, I get enough practice just from debating on this forum! Being human though, I can't think rationally 24/7 and I do like to engage in a lot of trash talk...whether for relief from rational thinking or just to stir shit or learn something...

In reply to a comment made earlier, about him being greedy or whatever...when you live in a world, in a system, where to be heard and be well known, you have to be rich...I mean what do you expect? One poor person isn't gunna spread Jack Schitt. One famous rich person will get heard however.

 

[Alien Allen]

You still don't get it

It is the same as here when a republican who all his life chastises others for being immoral and then gets caught doing the same. When your main platform is like Moores which is mainly about greed and you make money just like those greedy people you chastise then you are ripe for being a hypocrite.

As to your critical thinking comments I think you need a dose of humility. Because you are basing your views without even having seen his movies. Ergo it appears your views are based on emotion and not critical thinking. Fancy catch phrases may serve you well in class but are pointless in a street fight debate. IJS

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Eh, still doesn't make your sources any more valid.

Humility...really? If I see a flaw, you'll hear about it. How are my views based on emotion when I pointed out flaws in your evidence, making your side of the argument a little weak...hmm?

 

[edgray]

You still don't get it

It is the same as here when a republican who all his life chastises others for being immoral and then gets caught doing the same. When your main platform is like Moores which is mainly about greed and you make money just like those greedy people you chastise then you are ripe for being a hypocrite.

As to your critical thinking comments I think you need a dose of humility. Because you are basing your views without even having seen his movies. Ergo it appears your views are based on emotion and not critical thinking. Fancy catch phrases may serve you well in class but are pointless in a street fight debate. IJS

Actually I would totally disagree with that. Moore's main platform isn't greed. It's corruption. Michael Moore hasn't made his money through corruption, no one was harmed by his movies other than the guilty parties involved. He hasn't made money by making other people poorer, nor getting them into debt, nor by corrupting the government. So no, he is in no way a hypocrite.

You have no idea about his standpoint because you've pre-judged him, labelled him a "liberal" so you don't have to like him. Watch his films, for better or worse you might actually learn something.

Furthermore, the criticisms of Moore's work are as subjective as the work itself. Aside from turning a letter to an editor into a newspaper article, most likely for increased impact, the criticisms of his work aren't criticisms you can in any way rely on, they're even more slanted than Moore's work.

 

[Alien Allen]

Moore is a hard core socialist

Not just a liberal

He despises capitalism yet has no qualms about raking in big bucks for his movies

 

[edgray]

Moore is a hard core socialist

Not just a liberal

He despises capitalism yet has no qualms about raking in big bucks for his movies

Moore's goal seems to be social democracy, more like the UK. It's a big jump to call him a hardcore socialist.

 

[Minor Axis]

I'm not a conservative nor a fan of Fox News, and I hate him passionately too

Why? From what you know or what you imagine or what you've been told?

 

[Alien Allen]

Why? From what you know or what you imagine or what you've been told?

For me it starts with his smug gotcha pseudo journalism

He picks a topic and then does only a one sided interpretation yet the left treat it as gospel

He has been exposed numerous times by plenty of people other than the blogs

Perhaps the hatchet job he did on Roger Smith which was covered a lot in my area makes me more sensitive to this. Just like you won't trust a republican I don't trust anything coming from Moore.

 

[edgray]

Just looking at some of those links again. From the delightful Debbie Schussel, we have this appalling display of idiocy:

To say that Michael Moore is intellectually dishonest wouldn’t be correct. It’s not intellectual. He’s just plain, flat out dishonest. And hypocritical.

And “Capitalism: A Love Story,” his latest fake-umentary, is more like Hypocrisy: A Love Story. The lovers: Michael Moore and . . . himself.

That’s unless you count actor Wally Shawn, America’s new “economic scholar” . . . and a character actor who played a teacher in “Clueless,” a title more appropriate for this flick. Shawn is suddenly an econ expert “because he’s read and studied politics and economics.” Big Deal. Shawn tells us that the problem with capitalism is

You have one guy who makes ice cream and nobody likes his, so they don’t buy it, and he goes out of business. You have another guy, and everybody likes his ice cream, so he succeeds.

And this is a problem because . . .? Capitalism . . . it’s bad because bad ice cream makers go out of business.

Which is beyond stupid if you've actually seen the scene in the film that this is about. There is not the slightest implication that Shawn was saying that capitalism is bad because bad ice cream makers go out of business.

Shawn was simply talking about how capitalism is always described in very "small-town" language, where it appears more pleasing. I've seen it many times where the defense of capitalism is summed up in the description of voluntary exchanges between 2 people. The point Shawn clearly makes, which Schussel doesn't even seem to have been paying attention to, is that capitalism is seldom explained to people using language more realistic in the world in which we live, which might show that capitalism isn't so great when you're not dealing with that idealistic basic voluntary exchange and you're dealing with real world scenarios of corporate corruption and volatile markets.

She never actually addresses her accusation of Moore being a hypocrite, the insult is thrown with zero justification whatsoever.

From here on in, there aren't any facts displayed to back up her so-out-of-the-ball-park-it's-not-even-funny opinions. She totally misreads and misrepresents information that in the movie is so clear a five year old could understand it.

Most of the attacks on Moore's work are pretty similar. They wreak of petty hatreds and always come from a highly defensive stand point, never attacking directly but just attacking the man. Moore's main points are often twisted or just ignored like above.

 

[retro]

Firstly, prove the statement in bold. He's had lots of accusations thrown at him, few have actually stuck.

Sure, he's a "liberal". If you look at the facts, and more importantly, listen to the people he interviews in his movies, you get a good picture.

Sicko is full of lies and distortions. So is Fahrenheit 9/11. Those are the only two of his that I've actually watched.

 

[Meirionnydd]

He is an entertainer that lies and distorts to spew his crap

You can take nothing he says seriously with his liberal bias

He is nothing more than another greedy capitalist who whines about others getting rich. He dresses like a slob but has more wealth than one can imagine as a result of his movies. What a hypocrite

According to those so beholden to capitalism and the free market; if you're a rich conservative, you're not greedy, you're just someone who has worked hard throughout their life and deserve a share of the spoils of your hard labor.

However, if you're Micheal Moore, someone who is trying to make others aware of the endemic social problems in the United States and further promote the cause of social justice through various methods such as film and books, through which he has made money, then he is just a greedy capitalist.

Funny that.

 

[Alien Allen]

According to those so beholden to capitalism and the free market; if you're a rich conservative, you're not greedy, you're just someone who has worked hard throughout their life and deserve a share of the spoils of your hard labor.

However, if you're Micheal Moore, someone who is trying to make others aware of the endemic social problems in the United States and further promote the cause of social justice through various methods such as film and books, through which he has made money, then he is just a greedy capitalist.

Funny that.

I have yet to hear about any cause which Moore has started or donated to.

He is a socialist

Which is anti capitalist

Sorry if that upset liberals but if you follow him enough it is pretty clear

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Raising Malawi and Cordoba Initiative.