Logical Thinking

[Accountable]

how about you just simply leave me alone and leave the medical advice to professionals. Thanks

]I just expressed my concern over the state of mind you said you have...no need to fluster and carp at me![/QUOTE]MazHur, you hit a nerve, recognize that and back off. This has been an outstandingly respectful discussion. Let's keep it that way.

[...] free-will suggests that this person is not liable for their actions because events just happen out of nowhere?

:wtf: Where on earth did you get this from??
Don't blame me. I have free will and can't be held liable for my actions. :willy_nilly:

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

:wtf: Where on earth did you get this from??

Free-will is defined as the view which states that only some events are caused. Which means that some events are caused, and some just happen out of nowhere (not caused by anything). How it relates to my example is that if a person commits an unlawful act, and events just happen out of nowhere out of our control, then is that person really liable for their behaviour? Is it their fault that they committed the act, if the act came out of nowhere and they couldn't help it? Because if events just happen out of nowhere, the person really isn't to blame.
I know it's a little weird considering that free-will also suggests that you have choice.

But I guess you kind of have to account for what is deliberate behaviour and what is accidental behaviour, as some things are caused.

I don't know if this is in line with your views on free-will?
Also, is it possible that this definition of free-will is psychology-specific or is it the same for all subject matters?

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

MazHur, you hit a nerve, recognize that and back off. This has been an outstandingly respectful discussion. Let's keep it that way.

Lol I agree here too by the way

Maz, just so you know...it's rude to say someone needs a brain check-up :unsure:

 

[Abcinthia]

Free-will is defined as the view which states that only some events are caused. Which means that some events are caused, and some just happen out of nowhere (not caused by anything). How it relates to my example is that if a person commits an unlawful act, and events just happen out of nowhere out of our control, then is that person really liable for their behaviour? Is it their fault that they committed the act, if the act came out of nowhere and they couldn't help it? Because if events just happen out of nowhere, the person really isn't to blame.
I know it's a little weird considering that free-will also suggests that you have choice.

But I guess you kind of have to account for what is deliberate behaviour and what is accidental behaviour, as some things are caused.

I don't know if this is in line with your views on free-will?
Also, is it possible that this definition of free-will is psychology-specific or is it the same for all subject matters?

That was not the definition of Free Will I learnt in Psychology. Are you getting it confused with Deterministic behaviour? Or Soft-Determinism where determinism and Free Will are mixed?

 

[Accountable]

Free-will is defined as the view which states that only some events are caused. Which means that some events are caused, and some just happen out of nowhere (not caused by anything). How it relates to my example is that if a person commits an unlawful act, and events just happen out of nowhere out of our control, then is that person really liable for their behaviour? Is it their fault that they committed the act, if the act came out of nowhere and they couldn't help it? Because if events just happen out of nowhere, the person really isn't to blame.
I know it's a little weird considering that free-will also suggests that you have choice.

But I guess you kind of have to account for what is deliberate behaviour and what is accidental behaviour, as some things are caused.

I don't know if this is in line with your views on free-will?
Also, is it possible that this definition of free-will is psychology-specific or is it the same for all subject matters?

Behavior is not an event, and distinguishing between accidental and purposeful behavior is miles from your original "free-will suggests that this person is not liable for their actions because events just happen out of nowhere". You're making illogical leaps.

 

[itsmeJonB]

You're making illogical leaps.

How ironical given the topic of the thread

 

[Peter Parka]

Depends what 'world view' you have. It affects the way you practice. For example, if a person commits a crime, and your job is to get them back to the way they were before (non-criminal state), if you believe in free-will, how are you going to deal with them when free-will suggests that this person is not liable for their actions because events just happen out of nowhere?

And it also depends on how you view the body and mind. Do you see the body as a physical thing, while the mind is spirit? Can body and mind interact?
I'm allowed to believe any view I like, whether it's supported by medical science or not.

You put them in a secure mental hospital if they are a danger to the public through no fault of their own

 

[retro]

I just expressed my concern over the state of mind you said you have...no need to fluster and carp at me!

I know what issues I have, I regularly see a physician for them... and I never said what they were, how they affected me, or anything of the sort. So I would appreciate it if you wouldn't interject your advice for my "state of mind". I'm a perfectly sane, logical, and well adjusted individual... I simply have some neurological issues that make me see the world differently than some people.

Now enough. It doesn't have anything to do with this discussion other than the fact that there are people that simply suffer from neurological modifiers to their behavior without any outside influence. I simply used myself as a limited example for this discussion.

 

[retro]

Free-will is defined as the view which states that only some events are caused. Which means that some events are caused, and some just happen out of nowhere (not caused by anything). How it relates to my example is that if a person commits an unlawful act, and events just happen out of nowhere out of our control, then is that person really liable for their behaviour? Is it their fault that they committed the act, if the act came out of nowhere and they couldn't help it? Because if events just happen out of nowhere, the person really isn't to blame.

That's compatibilism I believe... determinism with free will in some areas.

I know it's a little weird considering that free-will also suggests that you have choice.

Having free will is having the ability to make decisions and determine a course of action about things under our control. I can decide to go rob a bank, it's my choice to do so; however, I will suffer the consequences of my choice.

But I guess you kind of have to account for what is deliberate behaviour and what is accidental behaviour, as some things are caused.

If I were in a store and knocked something over and broke it by accident, would I still be responsible for it happening? It wasn't a deliberate action, but it is still something that I did and am responsible for. I can't simply tell the store that it wasn't my fault because it was an accident, therefore I'm not liable. I went to the store out of my own free will, and thus put myself in the position to accidental break something. I obviously didn't go there with the intention of having it happen, but it did nonetheless.

I don't know if this is in line with your views on free-will?
Also, is it possible that this definition of free-will is psychology-specific or is it the same for all subject matters?

Free will, in my view, is metaphysical and the definitions of it exist outside of any one area of study.

 

[mazHur]

I know what issues I have, I regularly see a physician for them... and I never said what they were, how they affected me, or anything of the sort. So I would appreciate it if you wouldn't interject your advice for my "state of mind". I'm a perfectly sane, logical, and well adjusted individual... I simply have some neurological issues that make me see the world differently than some people.

Now enough. It doesn't have anything to do with this discussion other than the fact that there are people that simply suffer from neurological modifiers to their behavior without any outside influence. I simply used myself as a limited example for this discussion.

I can't believe asking about the welfare of someone would invoke such unhappiness in the West!!

 

[itsmeJonB]

I can't believe asking about the welfare of someone would invoke such unhappiness in the West!!

wasn't your intent and you know it

 

[retro]

I can't believe asking about the welfare of someone would invoke such unhappiness in the West!!

Except that you didn't, you told me I needed a complete brain work-up. Now leave it alone, this is in no way germane to the discussion, and you're doing exactly what you accuse other people of doing in your threads...

 

[mazHur]

wasn't your intent and you know it

Prove it.

 

[mazHur]

Except that you didn't, you told me I needed a complete brain work-up. Now leave it alone, this is in no way germane to the discussion, and you're doing exactly what you accuse other people of doing in your threads...

what is unusual about asking someone who tells you of his ailment and out of concern you tell him
to 'get a complete check up?? Isn't that English??? How on earth then you suppose me to inquire ???
you just don't seem to take things on their face value...not a healthy sign, Hmmm!!

 

[retro]

what is unusual about asking someone who tells you of his ailment and out of concern you tell him
to 'get a complete check up?? Isn't that English??? How on earth then you suppose me to inquire ???
you just don't seem to take things on their face value...not a healthy sign, Hmmm!!

You don't "inquire", as it had nothing to do with the discussion other than proving the point that people have neurological issues for reasons other than outside influence. I didn't ask you for your "concern" or sympathy or anything of the sort. Your attitude in other threads towards me tells me that you had no altruistic motivations in saying what you did. The implication of your statement is very clear, so don't play dumb. Simply leave it alone and move the fuck on.

 

[mazHur]

You don't "inquire", as it had nothing to do with the discussion other than proving the point that people have neurological issues for reasons other than outside influence. I didn't ask you for your "concern" or sympathy or anything of the sort. Your attitude in other threads towards me tells me that you had no altruistic motivations in saying what you did. The implication of your statement is very clear, so don't play dumb. Simply leave it alone and move the fuck on.

Okay, you better stop telling others you are sick or whatever...
.as that disturbs good Christians! Logical enough!

Doubt is the poison of Faith!

 

[retro]

Okay, you better stop telling others you are sick or whatever...
.as that disturbs good Christians! Logical enough!

Doubt is the poison of Faith!

Did I say I was "sick"? No. I absolutely did not. Now leave it the fuck alone, and go crawl back into whatever hole you came out of.

 

[mazHur]

Did I say I was "sick"? No. I absolutely did not. Now leave it the fuck alone, and go crawl back into whatever hole you came out of.

Be nice...I realize you are not well!!

 

[itsmeJonB]

 

[retro]

Be nice...I realize you are not well!!

I've fucking had enough of you already. Go away, or actually contribute something to this conversation.