Judaism, Christianity, Islam

[nTejas]

First: Quran was sent more than 600 years after the bible ... not at the same time.
Second: God is never liar ! the liar is who have changed the real bible sent to Jesus. the liar is the authors of the bible !!!
I can prove that the today's bible is not the bible sent to jesus ! here's just an example:

Nine Undeniable Contradictions in the Bible

Then can you say that the god is a liar because the bible (itself) contains so many contradictions ?!!! :humm:

Cordially - Sylviane

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross?

 

[valley]

First: Quran was sent more than 600 years after the bible ... not at the same time.

and this proves....? :confused

Second: God is never liar !

I agree.

the liar is who have changed the real bible sent to Jesus. the liar is the authors of the bible !!!

God is the Author of the Bible.

I can prove that the today's bible is not the bible sent to jesus ! here's just an example:

Nine Undeniable Contradictions in the Bible

Then can you say that the god is a liar because the bible (itself) contains so many contradictions ?!!!
:humm:

8 of the 9 "undeniable Contradictions" are numerical issues....they are easy to explain...they are copyist's error. In the Original Hebrew writings, a small mark called a "Multiplier" was put over a letter to show its numerical value. When it came time to copy..the manuscript was most likely old and wrinkled from wear and tear (hence the need to make a new copy) and that tiny mark may have been overlooked or misunderstood, changing the numerical value in some instances. But this is hardly enough to make a fuss over....unlike some of the Quranic discrepancies. The last contradiction is not above a rational explanation either. It is certainly nothing that warrants the dismissal of of the Holy Bible as God's word! :eek

Now read the text in question:

Who killed Goliath?
(a) David (1 Samuel 17:23, 50).
(b) Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19).

David killed Goliath. That much is clear from the first reference. The second reference in 2 Sam 21:19 says this:

"There was war with the Philistines again at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver's beam."

If you look at 1 Chronicles 20:5 its says:

"And there was a war with the Philistines again, and Elhanan the son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like the weavers beam"

Please take note that it is the same terms were used in the chronicles verse I gave you..the same one which specifies that it was the brother of Goliath that was killed by Elhanan. The "contradiction" is nothing more than another copyist error..the words "the brother of" were omitted....small potatoes compared to any real doctrinal issues in the Bible.

I have attempted to refute some of the supposed contradictions in the Bible that you have listed. Will you do me the same courtesy regarding some question I have about Quranic text? If so, I have to come back later to do it...my family is calling me away right now.

 

[lovinglife45]

THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MEN AND THE WORDS WERE SENT BY GOD and derived from experiences from the men who walked with him and so on. so i would expect some mistake since human make alot of them

 

[lovinglife45]

WRITTEN BY MEN AND THE WORDS WERE SENT BY GOD and derived from experiences from the men who walked with him and so on. so i would expect some mistake since human make alot of them
__________________

especially when it comes to numbers

 

[lovinglife45]

TRUTH IS WE WILL NEVER KNOW TILL WE DIE AND ITS AND ENDLESS DEBATE. aND TO KNOW THE TRUE WORDS YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN IN

 

[pladecalvo]

I have attempted to refute some of the supposed contradictions in the Bible that you have listed.

How did Judas die?

 

[valley]

How did Judas die?

He hung himself from a tree that overlooked a cliff. At some point...while he was being cut down or when the rope broke, his body fell to the ground below and split open.

Why do you ask?

 

[valley]

TRUTH IS WE WILL NEVER KNOW TILL WE DIE AND ITS AND ENDLESS DEBATE. aND TO KNOW THE TRUE WORDS YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN IN

Many scholars have done just that....they have gone to school to learn, Hebrew & Greek so that they may verify the translations for themselves. As a layman, I have a Greek to English and a Hebrew to English dictionary that I use for my studies as well...its not hard to find the original text. The Bible has been translated accurately enough that the best Bible critics do not dispute the translation. It would be like disputing a book that has been translated from French to English....its an academic thing. The point of contention with the Bible by critics is the interpretation of the translation.

But not all of the Bible needs to be interpreted. A great majority of it is written in clear, concise terms that even a child can grasp.

 

[pladecalvo]

He hung himself from a tree that overlooked a cliff. At some point...while he was being cut down or when the rope broke, his body fell to the ground below and split open.

Why do you ask?

At the risk of derailing the thread, can you provide the scripture that mentions ropes breaking, cliffs or being cut down. Also I'd be interested to know just how, if the body was overhanging a cliff in such way that it would would be dashed to pieces at the foot of the cliff when it fell, how the heck was Judas able to hang himself. Did he float on air whist tying the rope or something?? I ask because the two verses that deal with Judas' death contradict each other and I have not yet been able to find anyone that can explain the contradiction without giving 'personal interpretations' and adding things that are just not mentioned...such as cliffs and ropes breaking.

Perhaps we could start a new thread on it!!

 

[pladecalvo]

I dont think Muslims would agree that the God of the Bible is the same as the god of the Quran.
How can they be the same God when the Quran absolutely rejects that Jesus is a part of our triune God? :confused

.

Doesn't Islam also say that it's god rescued this Jesus character from crucifixion?

 

[valley]

At the risk of derailing the thread,

You did not seem to mind derailing the thread when you brought up the "undeniable contradictions" found in the Bible. ...all I was doing was answering them. :nod:

can you provide the scripture that mentions ropes breaking, cliffs or being cut down.

No, its a common deduction that most people arrive at when reading the text. Its the same sort of deductive reasoning that any investigator would do when faced with a mystery. Since the Bible clearly says that Judas hung himself...and then says that he fell to the ground and split open....you have to ask yourself how that could have been possible...a tree overlooking a pit is very plausible, especially given the terrain of the area.

Also I'd be interested to know just how, if the body was overhanging a cliff in such way that it would would be dashed to pieces at the foot of the cliff when it fell, how the heck was Judas able to hang himself. Did he float on air whist tying the rope or something??

Here is a quick google image that I found that describes what the tree might have looked like..minus the water, of course, lol..

Climb up the trunk, tie the rope, put it around your neck then step off the cliff. After hanging there for days or weeks...the rope breaks, the body falls (the Bible does not say that he jumped..it says that he fell) and splits open in the pit below. There is no way that you can deny that it is a reasonable explanation for the 2 verses. Go google up "The Potter's Field, Jerusalem" and you will see for yourself that the landscape makes the explanation even more plausible.

I ask because the two verses that deal with Judas' death contradict each other and I have not yet been able to find anyone that can explain the contradiction without giving 'personal interpretations' and adding things that are just not mentioned...such as cliffs and ropes breaking.

I have explained the "contradiction".

Perhaps we could start a new thread on it!!

Please feel free to. :nod: I would also like the thread to include the right to discuss the Hadiths and the Quranic contradictions as well. I do believe that in the end, people will change their minds about their belief that Islam and Christianity share the same God.

 

[pladecalvo]

No, its a common deduction that most people arrive at when reading the text.

Ahh! Just as I thought... it's nothing more than 'personal interpretation'. OK, that'll do for me.

Back to the topic!

 

[valley]

Back to the topic!

works for me.

First, I would like to apologize for thinking it was you who brought up the 9 contradictions in the Bible, that was Sylvia. I saw your question and then never looked back to realize that it was from a new person. Sorry about that.

anyways back on topic...do you think that Judaism, Islam and Christianity all worship the same God?

 

[pladecalvo]

First, I would like to apologize for thinking it was you who brought up the 9 contradictions in the Bible, that was Sylvia. I saw your question and then never looked back to realize that it was from a new person. Sorry about that.

Passar nada hombre! That's the problem with forums....you get talking to so many people that you get confused as to who said what!!

do you think that Judaism, Islam and Christianity all worship the same God?

Mmmmm!. Difficult one and one that I've not really considered to any great extent. The gods of all religions seem to have similarities with each other but that is probably more down to each religion plagiarising the preceding one. I've heard it suggested that all religions worship the same deity....they just see the deity in different ways. Don't know how that works when you come to religions like Hinduism though....where there are so many "gods". If you twisted my arm I'd have to say no, I don't think they do......but for goodness sake don't ask me why!!

 

[Minor Axis]

I guess the way to determine if your deity is the same as the other guys is by tying them together in a record of Earthly deeds? Otherwise how would you know? God as in The God is not very descriptive as compared to someone like Zeus.

 

[Sylviane88]

Offtopic:

Do you believe that Jesus Christ was crucified on the cross?

No, I don't believe so ! Jesus was not crucified on the cross.
According to your religion, take this:

Was Jesus Crucified? - The Original Sin

8 of the 9 "undeniable Contradictions" are numerical issues....they are easy to explain...they are copyist's error.

hhhh :jk... and how would you like to take a book -full of mistakes- as a holy book ??? !!! didn't I say that the bible has changed ???

Muslims know that the bible was true in the begining (the bible sent to Jesus) ... but ... after a short period of time, the bible has changed significantly! ( Jesus became GOD !, and he was crucified !!, numerical undeniable contradictions and so on !!! ... )

Therefore, to save people from error .. GOD sent his new holy book (Quran) which corrects the many errors in the distorted Bible.

God has no son.
God is the all-powerful and he doesn't need to the theatrical of sacrifice, crucifixion and humiliation by Jews.
God's book doesn't contain any errors.
God is neither a lamb nor a sheep (even if it is symbolic).
God is not 1+1+1=1.
God is not drunken (Psalm 78:65).
God does not sleep !!!
God is not racist !
the relationship between Jesus and the father will not be confusing.

The nine "undeniable contradictions" mentionned by me are not the only errors in the bible, there are so many other clear errors in your "holy book".:surrender

You did not seem to mind derailing the thread when you brought up the "undeniable contradictions" found in the Bible. ...all I was doing was answering them. :nod:

Brother ... you answered nothing.

Will you do me the same courtesy regarding some question I have about Quranic text?

why wait ? !!!
I'm too hasty to see what you have !!!:willy_nilly:
Let's know !!!

Back to the topic:

Anyway, Islam came to correct the misconceptions about God in christianity. However, GOD is the same. That's all.

 

[valley]

Therefore, to save people from error .. GOD sent his new holy book (Quran) which corrects the many errors in the distorted Bible.

Odd that Allah would send a book that was so full of internal errors.

1. Who Was the First Muslim? Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
2. Can Allah be seen and did Muhammad see his Lord? Yes [S. 53:1-18, 81:15-29], No [6:102-103, 42:51]
3. To Marry or Not to Marry? The Qur'an forbids believers to marry idolatrous women [Sura 2:221], and calls Christians idolaters and unbelievers [9:28-33], but still allows Muslims to marry Christian women [5:5]
4. Will Allah reward the good deeds of Unbelievers? S. 9:17 and 9:69 clearly say no. However, S. 99:7 implies yes. Moreover, S. 2:62 promises Christians reward for their good deeds. But S. 9:28-33; 5:17, 72-73 calls Christians idolaters, and S. 9:17 is very clear that idolaters will have no reward.
5. Should Muslims Accept Peace or Not?
6. Fighting All People Until They Do What?
7. Compel them or Not?
8. How many mothers does a Muslim have? Only one [58:2, the woman who gave birth and none else], or two [4:23, including the mother who nursed him], or at least ten [33:6]?
9. And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available estate. A second example: A man leaves only his mother, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property.
10. How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the announciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about (several) angels while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21. (This article has received many Muslim responses which are quoted or linked and/or discussed at the end of the article.)
11. How many days did Allah need to destroy the people of Aad? One day [54:19] or several days [41:16; 69:6,7]
12. Six or eight days of creation? Sura 7:54, 10:3, 11:7, and 25:59 clearly state that God created "the heavens and the earth" in six days. But in 41:9-12 the detailed description of the creation procedure adds up to eight days. (This topic also includes many Muslim responses and further discussion.)
13. Quick or Slow Creation? Allah creates the heavens and the earth in six days [7:54] and many Muslims want to be modern and scientific, and make that six eons, but then again, He creates instantaneously [2:117], "Be! And it is".
14. Heavens or Earth? Which was created first? First earth and then heaven [2:29], heaven and after that earth [79:27-30].
15. Calling together or ripping apart? In the process of creation heaven and earth were first apart and are called to come together [41:11], while 21:30 states that they were originally one piece and then ripped apart.
16. What was man created from? A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]
17. Worshiping the Same or a Different God? Muhammad is commanded to speak to the disbelievers: ... nor do you worship what I worship [109:3]. However, other verses in the Qur'an state clearly that those disbelieving his message are in fact worshiping the same God, Allah.
18. Where is Allah and his throne? Allah is nearer than the jugular vein [50:16], but he is also on the throne [57:4] which is upon the water [11:7], and at the same time so far away, that it takes between 1,000 and 50,000 years to reach him [32:5, 70:4].
19. The origin of calamity? Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?
20. A Contradiction Regarding Muhammad's Fatherhood
21. Does Allah Act Alone Or Does He Have Partners That Assist Him?
22. Is Allah the Only Judge or Not?
23. Are all obedient and prostrating to Allah? That is the claim in 16:49 and 30:26, but dozens of verses speak of the proud disobedience of Satan [7:11, 15:28-31, 17:61, 20:116, 38:71-74, 18:50] as well of many different human beings who reject His commands and His revelations.

please click at the beginning of each line to follow the link to an in-depth discussion of each contradiction...I have only included 23 of the 125 internal contradictions.

The Quran also has 16 scientific contradictions, 12 historical contradictions and many others.

I got these from a quick google where I found this page ---->Contradictions / Difficulties in the Qur'an

If anyone is curious as to how the 101 alleged contradictions if the Bible are explained by Christian Scholars then please go here -----> Debate Topics: Apologetic

Both pages are a dry read if you arent interested in this kind of thing...but its a good source of information for those who really like to dig deeper into the differences between differing faiths.

 

[Sylviane88]

Simply ... Most of the contradictions which appeared in ties ... are not only wrong .. But also silly and exciting for laughter !!!

On the contrary, the example of the contradictions which I've already mentionned to you, is very clear and really undeniable!

In your case, I opened the first links and the articles were very funny (But full of fictitious and deceitful) ... this was only the begining ! how about the rest ?!!!

therefore, forgive me, I cannot waste my time reading all the other ridiculous "contradictions"!!! because from the title, I knew what funny ideas are in the article !!!

However, I let this site respond to these absurdities:

QURAN & CONTRADICTION LIES

 

[valley]

Simply ... Most of the contradictions which appeared in ties ... are not only wrong .. But also silly and exciting for laughter !!!

On the contrary, the example of the contradictions which I've already mentionned to you, is very clear and really undeniable!

In your case, I opened the first links and the articles were very funny (But full of fictitious and deceitful) ... this was only the begining ! how about the rest ?!!!

therefore, forgive me, I cannot waste my time reading all the other ridiculous "contradictions"!!! because from the title, I knew what funny ideas are in the article !!!

However, I let this site respond to these absurdities:

QURAN & CONTRADICTION LIES

Why did I know this was coming.

Sylviane...lol...we are not so different in our enthusiasm for our beliefs, are we? I hope that like me, you debate these things because you care for my soul and nothing else.

Please accept my apologies if I have been rude towards your beliefs. It is not personal towards you...but towards Islam in general and what it teaches. I understand that I will probably not change your mind in just a few threads here in a public forum. But maybe some day, after many arguments with each other, we can meet each other halfway and look for some common ground principles that we can agree on. Til then, you'll just have to be patient with me and I will try to do the same for you. The things you post are just as absurd to me as mine are to you. Lets keep that in mind when we talk to each other and maybe we will start hearing what the other has to say from now on.

 

[Sylviane88]

For you, you are right because you were born Christian. Therefore you can not easily accept that the Bible contains mistakes or your religion is not the religion accepted by God, I'll understand it, it's too difficult !

But it is not the same thing for me, I was born Atheist ... my parents were too.

But I was not convinced by the Atheism, there were many things in the world say explicitly that they are created by a skilful creator and designer .. and have not established themselves.

For example, I noticed how strange integration between the male and female (and their vital functions) in the living organisms! how did this integration begin .. and how did it create itself ?!!... later, I knew that there is certainly a creator of this universe. so I decided to do extensive research on religions.

I noticed that Islam is the only religion exposed to a global hateful attack .. via the internet, TV channels, World Press, even the Cinema and theatre! Islam has become a nightmare for the world!, a religion of terrorism, murder and the restriction of freedom and so on .. ! I really found it illogical and leads to suspicion and mistrust.

I saw what was said in the anti-Islamic sites ... I interpreted the responses of Islamic sites. but my research were not only on the Internet!. I lived in Algeria for several years. I studied the Arabic language (which helped me a lot in my studies) and I have made comparisons between what was said by the anti-Islamic propaganda, and the reality of Islam in an Islamic country as algeria . I noticed a big difference. and I also tried to explore the muslims' answers to these propaganda.

my brother. I found that Islam is the only religion accepted by a neutral mentality. The only religion that does not contain ambiguous and confusing. When I chose Islam, my choice was the result of fully conviction.