Is using a whip to get an animal to do a trained trick...

[KLD1019]

My opinion is that if you need a whip or have to use any kind of object to train an animal then the animal was not meant to be trained. I've taught all of my pets tricks with rewards of treats. That's what worked and anything else would be cruel.

i agree! i think its lazy and you dont deserve an animal if you dont have the time and effort to put forth in real training!

 

[Guyzerr]

I know lots of humans I'd like to use a can of WHIP CREAM on... and I'd do it TO make them howl with delight!! hahaha.

You'll change your tune when you get older.

 

[Chillaxicator]

Ya catch more flies with whip cream than a whip... hahahahahah.

 

[Chillaxicator]

You'll change your tune when you get older.

Hahahaha maybe, it'll change from whip cream to BenGay hahahahaa.

 

[freakofnature]

My opinion is that if you need a whip or have to use any kind of object to train an animal then the animal was not meant to be trained. I've taught all of my pets tricks with rewards of treats. That's what worked and anything else would be cruel.

I guess 90% of the people in the Arab show horse industry are guilty of animal cruelty then. :ninja

 

[Dana]

Ask yourself if it would be cruel to train a kid to do something using any form of mistreatment. Fairly simple answer imo.

I have no respect for any human that abuses an animal in any way. If you can't treat them with kindness and respect you don't deserve to be around them.

but humans are weak in comparison... Just saying :ninja And people used to belt the shit out of children to get them to listen.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I DO NOT LIKE TRAINING WILD ANIMALS TO DO TRICKS FOR ENTERTAINMENT. Period.

I am fine with zoos training their big cats to do the basics, go in and out of their enclousures for feeding/cleaning, or training the elephants to lift their feet to clean, check, and clip them. I am also fine with keeping animals in large enclosures at zoos and aquriums.

Basic training is necessery and in most zoos there is no need to use a whip because the training is so basic. I dislike that circuses train wild animals. They are not mentally built to live healthy lives that way. Domestic animals are, wild animals are not. They should only use hybrids, and probably only third or more generation hybrids at that.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I guess 90% of the people in the Arab show horse industry are guilty of animal cruelty then. :ninja

Horses are domesticated and fine to use whips on because they have been built to physically and mentally handle the attention.

Wild animals are completely different.

 

[KLD1019]

but humans are weak in comparison... Just saying :ninja And people used to belt the shit out of children to get them to listen.

im all for spanking, but using anything other than the hand, i call abuse

 

[freakofnature]

im all for spanking, but using anything other than the hand, i call abuse

I don't think it's quite so black and white as that. I think intent has a lot to do with it when it comes whether or not something is abuse.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Negative reifnarcement generally doesn't work very well long term anyways. Short term you will get quick results. But long term, you will get a very frustrated, and generally, large, dangerous animal, at breaking point.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I don't think it's quite so black and white as that. I think intent has a lot to do with it when it comes whether or not something is abuse.

Don't worry I agree with you

Horses are a totally different arena in training then other animals, first they are domesticated, second, if trained improperly, they can and will kill people. Unlike most other domesticated animals, and generally the whipping doesn't leave marks, neither mentally or physically.

 

[AnitaBeer]

Taking an animal out of its natural habitat to entertain thousands and thousands of people is not something I'm fond of. I don't like seeing elephants, lions, bears...etc being used for this especially since you know every single one of them have had some form of cruelty used. Whether that be whips, no feeding them, leaving them in cages...you get the idea.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Taking an animal out of its natural habitat to entertain thousands and thousands of people is not something I'm fond of. I don't like seeing elephants, lions, bears...etc being used for this especially since you know every single one of them have had some form of cruelty used. Whether that be whips, no feeding them, leaving them in cages...you get the idea.

So do you disagree with zoos?

Pretty much none of the AZA accredited zoo's have taken animals out of the wild (aside from animals that were sick or injured, and thusly saved) and it is compeltely against regulations to ever use negative reinforcement and keep the zoo acreddited. Most breeding programs are set-up to keep animals from going extinct, and all of the profits either go to bettering the zoo, or wildlife recovery projects. Zookeepers make very little money.

I don't think a zoo should be allowed to exist unless if it's AZA, but I think they are great if they are AZA.

 

[freakofnature]

Don't worry I agree with you

Horses are a totally different arena in training then other animals, first they are domesticated, second, if trained improperly, they can and will kill people. Unlike most other domesticated animals, and generally the whipping doesn't leave marks, neither mentally or physically.

In terms of using a whip to train our halter horses, yes, I agree with you that it's not abuse. But in the post that you quoted I was responding to KLD's assessment that using anything other than a hand to discipline a child was abuse. Children can be abused by parents using nothing more than their hand. As a child, I was spanked with a belt and I don't consider myself abused. It's not quite as cut and dried as saying that anything more than a hand is abuse.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

In terms of using a whip to train our halter horses, yes, I agree with you that it's not abuse. But in the post that you quoted I was responding to KLD's assessment that using anything other than a hand to discipline a child was abuse. Children can be abused by parents using nothing more than their hand. As a child, I was spanked with a belt and I don't consider myself abused. It's not quite as cut and dried as saying that anything more than a hand is abuse.

I don't like to see parents hit their children with belts... my next door neighbor was and she seemed pretty mentally scarred by it, although the marks weren't very deep or anything.

 

[AnitaBeer]

So do you disagree with zoos?

Pretty much none of the AZA accredited zoo's have taken animals out of the wild (aside from animals that were sick or injured, and thusly saved) and it is compeltely against regulations to ever use negative reinforcement and keep the zoo acreddited. Most breeding programs are set-up to keep animals from going extinct, and all of the profits either go to bettering the zoo, or wildlife recovery projects. Zookeepers make very little money.

I don't think a zoo should be allowed to exist unless if it's AZA, but I think they are great if they are AZA.

It depends on the zoo I guess. If animals are being trapped and brought here to entertain in a zoo or circus I'm not fond of it. I know there are cases where an injured animal is taken in to give it medical attention, but after I think they should have to release all back to their original habitat instead of trying to make it zoo friendly.

There are cases like where an animal is breed and born in a zoo/zoos those animals are born into a controlled habitat and don't know any other than that so if it's not being abused I guess I can't really say it's bad.

I'm not saying I hate zoos and such as they offer a great deal of education, but absolutely hate to see animals trapped and then taken for use of entertainment and to be abused. My comment was more in regards to circuses.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

It depends on the zoo I guess. If animals are being trapped and brought here to entertain in a zoo or circus I'm not fond of it. I know there are cases where an injured animal is taken in to give it medical attention, but after I think they should have to release all back to their original habitat instead of trying to make it zoo friendly.

There are cases like where an animal is breed and born in a zoo/zoos those animals are born into a controlled habitat and don't know any other than that so if it's not being abused I guess I can't really say it's bad.

I'm not saying I hate zoos and such as they offer a great deal of education, but absolutely hate to see animals trapped and then taken for use of entertainment and to be abused. My comment was more in regards to circuses.

Yes I know and I compeltely agree.

Did you know that only 1 out of 100 parrots taken from the wild to be made into a pet survives the capture, trip, and training?

It's pretty sad

(Oh and AZA zoo's generally try and often succeed at releasing rehabilitated animals back into the wild)

 

[darkangel]

i agree! i think its lazy and you dont deserve an animal if you dont have the time and effort to put forth in real training!

I'm glad somebody agrees with me. :thumbup

I guess 90% of the people in the Arab show horse industry are guilty of animal cruelty then. :ninja

Yes! :ninja

Horses are domesticated and fine to use whips on because they have been built to physically and mentally handle the attention.

Wild animals are completely different.

I whole heartedly agree with you on this one. :thumbup

Taking an animal out of its natural habitat to entertain thousands and thousands of people is not something I'm fond of. I don't like seeing elephants, lions, bears...etc being used for this especially since you know every single one of them have had some form of cruelty used. Whether that be whips, no feeding them, leaving them in cages...you get the idea.

Yeah they have it really rough. The abuse is immense on these types of animals.:nod:

 

[Guyzerr]

Horses are domesticated and fine to use whips on because they have been built to physically and mentally handle the attention.

Wild animals are completely different.

Bullshit. Both feel pain equally.

That's like saying someone that's been taking beatings all their life can handle one more.