Is there such a thing as life after death

[gman4354]

Re: is ther such a life after death

While that is true, when it was at its speculation stage, it wasn't a fact. Get back to me when you have some evidence of an after life, Hitler running off to S America or any other fantasy you dreamt up.

You believe things because they just haven't been proved yet? :willy_nilly:

Religion, in this case, Catholicism and/or Christianity requires that you have faith in God and that he exists as your eternal father, lord, and savior; Also, that his son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross for our sins. So that we may have an eternal life in Heaven. That is, if you truly believe in God and you have full faith in him, if you do not, were you go is not up to us, but up to God but the bible seems to say that you will suffer in Hell for an eternity.

Some of the best of examples of this comes strait from The Bible:

"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.'" - John 11:25

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." - John 14:1-3

Also, the Bible uses the term "asleep" or "sleeping" when referring to the physical body of the believer at death. It is important to note that the term is used solely for believers. The dead body appears to be asleep when it is separated at death from the spirit and soul of the believer. The spirit and soul, which are eternal, are united with Christ at the moment of the believer's death (2 Corinthians 5:8). The body of the believer, which is mortal flesh, perishes, or "sleeps" until the day it is transformed and reunited to the believer at the final resurrection.
[See the following: (1 Corinthians 15:43; Philippians 3:21; 1 Corinthians 15:51)]

 

[Mythirion]

Re: is ther such a life after death

You believe things because they just haven't been proved yet? :willy_nilly:

No no. I have faith in them. I will lose faith when they are proven false. As long as it hasn't been proved, I will keep my faith in it.

 

[Zorak]

Re: is ther such a life after death

No no. I have faith in them. I will lose faith when they are proven false. As long as it hasn't been proved, I will keep my faith in it.

Somebody had a signature that described faith better than I ever could.

I hope they post soon

 

[Tim]

Re: is ther such a life after death

Somebody had a signature that described faith better than I ever could.

I hope they post soon

Would that be mine?

 

[Peter Parka]

Re: is ther such a life after death

Religion, in this case, Catholicism and/or Christianity requires that you have faith in God and that he exists as your eternal father, lord, and savior; Also, that his son, Jesus Christ, died on the cross for our sins. So that we may have an eternal life in Heaven. That is, if you truly believe in God and you have full faith in him, if you do not, were you go is not up to us, but up to God but the bible seems to say that you will suffer in Hell for an eternity.

Some of the best of examples of this comes strait from The Bible:

"Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die.'" - John 11:25

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." - John 14:1-3

Also, the Bible uses the term "asleep" or "sleeping" when referring to the physical body of the believer at death. It is important to note that the term is used solely for believers. The dead body appears to be asleep when it is separated at death from the spirit and soul of the believer. The spirit and soul, which are eternal, are united with Christ at the moment of the believer's death (2 Corinthians 5:8). The body of the believer, which is mortal flesh, perishes, or "sleeps" until the day it is transformed and reunited to the believer at the final resurrection.
[See the following: (1 Corinthians 15:43; Philippians 3:21; 1 Corinthians 15:51)]

And because a book says something, you believe it? Do you also believe in a place called middle earth where a hobbit brings down evil? Thats in a book too.

 

[Peter Parka]

Re: is ther such a life after death

There is no evidence. It can't be proven yet. I feel when we advance a bit more in technology, we will be able to prove the existence of any afterlife. We were not able to prove that the Earth revolved around the sun, but when we got the technology... We proved it.

In that case you must also believe that there are toasters on a far away planet having sex with dinosaurs and their offspring is a 50 foot tall gorrilla with a squirrels tail and the head of an ant. No ones proved that isn't true. :24:

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: is ther such a life after death

You believe things because they just haven't been proved yet? :willy_nilly:

A better description is being open minded to the possibility instead of being sure it can't be.

 

[Tim]

Re: is ther such a life after death

A better description is being open minded to the possibility instead of being sure it can't be.

But is it really being open minded?

How open minded are people in their faiths and beliefs when they almost always share the same as that of their parents or community?
Your beliefs and religion are a product of where you were born and unto whom.
And to those who change later in life, I would say that you were sold a better story.

Beliefs in the after life and faith in religion are nothing more than passed down stories that people believe to be true. There is absolutely nothing behind these stories yet people connect with them so deeply, that they believe that they MUST be true.
And this is why you will find that those of the greatest faith (in any religion) are the ones with the biggest holes in their lives. Either a loved one has died or is terminally ill, depression, self loathing, addictive tendencies,(why do you think alcoholics take so well to the 12 steps? They are just changing one addiction for another) you name it. It could also be used as an extension to the family. Example, a large Italian family that goes to church every Sunday. It's just part of their family and how they grew up.


Ask yourself this simple question... Would I believe the same things I do today if I were born into a completely different family on the other side of the world in a completely different culture?

I would say no.

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: is ther such a life after death

But is it really being open minded?

Ask yourself this simple question... Would I believe the same things I do today if I were born into a completely different family on the other side of the world in a completely different culture?

I would say no.

If you are open to diverse ideas, you are open minded. Most of the arguments I have in these forums are with those who are here, telling everyone else, how it is- It's the Bible/Jesus, Koran/Mohammad, traditional Atheists, whomever and whatever, they are all selling their religion as truth. But there is no truth without proof. It might have to be individual proof (whatever that is).

Mostly I dispute simply because of the fact that in religion there is no proof, just faith. However, I'm sympathetic to diverse views such as reincarnation- why not? Even to the dirt-to-dirt Atheists I must admit it's possible, but to sell such a belief as any semblance of a certainty is no better than the theist arguments imo. You have another theory? I'm happy to listen. I really like idea of the "force" from Star Wars and mention it quite frequently. Bottom line, we just don't know. I'd say case closed, but it is far from closed.

BTW I try really hard not to say things like "I believe in an afterlife" instead I really hope there is an afterlife, because it makes sense to me from a philosophical standpoint. But it can't be proven, hence I don't try to sell it, just influence people to consider the possibility.

 

[Tim]

I'm not trying to "sell" anything... people will believe what they believe, but it's very important to step back and truly understand where your beliefs came from and how they might be different if other circumstances were in play. That alone should provide you with an epiphany.

Basically, how can I believe in anything taught to me by someone who doesn't truly understand why they themselves believe it?

For me, it has to come back to science and logic... nothing shows a "life force" leaving a body as it dies, yet emotionally we feel detached and empty. Our mind looks for comfort in this loss and seeks to allow comfort by imagining a continuation through eternal life, reincarnation, spirits, etc... All products of the grieving mind. So I can see how so many beliefs were derived and passed on for thousands of years. And over that period of time it just gets ingrained into our psyche without the need to go back and examine why we believe what we believe. The supernatural provides the illusion of answers to things we do not comprehend, but like a magician, it's just an illusion.

 

[Minor Axis]

For me, it has to come back to science and logic... nothing shows a "life force" leaving a body as it dies, yet emotionally we feel detached and empty. Our mind looks for comfort in this loss and seeks to allow comfort by imagining a continuation through eternal life, reincarnation, spirits, etc... All products of the grieving mind. So I can see how so many beliefs were derived and passed on for thousands of years. And over that period of time it just gets ingrained into our psyche without the need to go back and examine why we believe what we believe. The supernatural provides the illusion of answers to things we do not comprehend, but like a magician, it's just an illusion.

I would propose that we are looking at a puzzle with 10% (if that) of pieces available to piece together. It would be a mistake to draw any real conclusions and have a high level of confidence of the truth of the conclusion based on what we currently know.

 

[Tim]

But here is the problem, this puzzle will look completely to each belief/faith. There is only a puzzle because you want one to be. Again, you only believe there is an afterlife because you want one to be, you were sold on the idea by people who were sold on the idea, and so on.

 

[Minor Axis]

But here is the problem, this puzzle will look completely to each belief/faith. There is only a puzzle because you want one to be. Again, you only believe there is an afterlife because you want one to be, you were sold on the idea by people who were sold on the idea, and so on.

Tim, so your premise is there are no missing pieces in mankind's knowledge? That we know everything to determine that there is no soul and no afterlife? One simple concept, "infinity" has the sharpest minds stumped. It's like a person who lives in a house without windows and a door that won't open until that person dies. Whatever prejudices that motivate you, lead you to believe there is nothing outside. Believing there is nothing after death is just as far out on a limb as believing there is the Christian Heaven.

BTW, I've not ever said "there is an afterlife and we have souls" only there could be. And yes, while I'd like there to be one, for lack of evidence, I can no more commit to it as I can commit to the concept of the Christian God. However I do think there is something... don't ask me what.

 

[Tim]

Not exactly... my premise is that we only believe in "something" after death because of stories that were told for generations upon generations. It is not based on our lack of knowledge, it is based on "wouldn't it be nice if"

It is just as likely to believe that when we die, a carbon copy of us is created on a mirror planet of our own in another dimension. And to say that it's possible because science hasn't proven otherwise is foolish. Because this idea is one that came from my imagination, nothing more nothing less. And that's what I'm saying about an after life, it came from someones imagination, nothing more nothing less. So how is it any more credible or possible? Because more people believe it, or it has been part of our collective imaginations for a longer period of time???

Once again, ask yourself where the thought of an after life came into being. Why did people first start believing in an after life and how does that apply to the validity of the concept?
I have a very hard time believing something true or possible because others have imagined it so. Especially when it was not based in any sort of fact or theory, just a "wouldn't it be nice if"

 

[Minor Axis]

Especially when it was not based in any sort of fact or theory, just a "wouldn't it be nice if"

So you are sure there is nothing in store for us after physical death except obliteration of consciousness. Actually there are theories about parallel universes. They can't be proven yet either...

At one point in human history, man did not believe man could fly, it was an impossibility. But someone had to consider the possibility to make it happen.