Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson 1

[Alien Allen]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

So this is Mulders new playground

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Constitution Lesson 102: It's most appalling the first President of recent history to profess to be devoutly Christian, who wears his religion on his sleeve, is the first one to promote illegal wiretapping,

What illegal wiretapping? Can you give us any authority for your bold proposition?

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

What illegal wiretapping? Can you give us any authority for your bold proposition?

Just google illegal wiretapping and you'll come up with links like Washington Post. And then there are the phone companies who are seeking protection for their participation in this dubious endeavor. Your simply out of your mind if you think the wholesale monitoring of U.S. citizen's communications is a good precedent.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Just google illegal wiretapping and you'll come up with links like Washington Post. And then there are the phone companies who are seeking protection for their participation in this dubious endeavor. Your simply out of your mind if you think the wholesale monitoring of U.S. citizen's communications is a good precedent.

Do you believe everything you read on the Internet? An editorial by a reporter is ABSOLUTELY NOT in any way support for your proposition. I've already given you at the beginning of this thread the laws and the cites to the only two federal courts as well as the actual court that would do the oversight of the warrants ALL CONCLUDE THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS THE CONSITUTIONAL RIGHT. Moreover, other presidents (including Clinton) have all done it. The only reason its getting press now is because its Bush and the liberal press knows they can get liberal tongues wagging simply by using the right buzz words.

So again--give us some actual case law support for the illegality of warrantess wiretaps of suspected foriegn terrorists. If you can't provide actual support, than stop making accusations you have no hope of proving.

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

So this is Mulders new playground

Yes, where arguments abound why Big Brother and Big Corporations are always right, unions and the "liberal media" are evil, and little citizens had better learn to bend over and take it without squealing or else...

 

[IntruderLS1]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Constitution Lesson 102: It's most appalling the first President of recent history to profess to be devoutly Christian, who wears his religion on his sleeve, is the first one to promote illegal wiretapping,... ... ...

Ouch... I think you may need to go back to post #1 and take another quick look friend. What we have here is what Atheist in the religious threads like to call a statement of faith that cannot be shaken by evidence.

**Runs from AEF** :willy_nilly:


:24:

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Ouch... I think you may need to go back to post #1 and take another quick look friend. What we have here is what Atheist in the religious threads like to call a statement of faith that cannot be shaken by evidence.

**Runs from AEF** :willy_nilly:


:24:

It's pretty basic. The FISA law in force requires court oversight. The Bush Administration did not want to mess with any stink'n courts, hence they bypassed the courts and broke this law. I can't help it if the Congress does not have the balls to hold this Administration accountable. Just remember when this started the Republicans were firmly in control functioning as the enablers. Concurring Opinons link. Salon.com link.

The whole point of FISA is that we do not trust government leaders to eavesdrop on us in secret precisely because those powers were continuously abused when exercised with no oversight.

And I noticed that neither you nor Fox have countered the last two assertions of my quoted statement.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

It's pretty basic. The FISA law in force requires court oversight. The Bush Administration did not want to mess with any stink'n courts, hence they bypassed the courts and broke this law. I can't help it if the Congress does not have the balls to hold this Administration accountable. Just remember when this started the Republicans were firmly in control functioning as the enablers. Concurring Opinons link. Salon.com link.

The whole point of FISA is that we do not trust government leaders to eavesdrop on us in secret precisely because those powers were continuously abused when exercised with no oversight.

And I noticed that neither you nor Fox have countered the last two assertions of my quoted statement.

LOL! I countered it in my first post---I quoted the the only two federal courts to decide the issue (with case citations) that said the President has the constitutional power to issue wiretap orders without warrants.

And then I quoted the FISA court for you which you claim requires oversight

. . .

FISA--the very same court that would ultimately review the issuance of warrantless wiretaps after the fact--has already stated (In re Sealed Case, 310 F.3d 717, 742 (Foreign Intel. Surv. Ct. of Rev. 2002) that “[A]ll the other courts to have decided the issue [have] held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information . . . . We take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.".

That's a FISA court opinion so what about that do you not understand? Seriously?

Look--you're a guy Minor, that believes what you want to believe the facts be damned. In your mind you want to believe Bush is guilty so you believe it no matter the fact that every court that's ever decided the issue has decided it in favor of the President's Constitutional Power.

Interesting that you see this as unconstitutional (trying to defend the nation against terrorism) but you have no problem with unions coercing Democrats to pass laws restricting free speech. You like only those parts of the Constitution that suit your own personal interests and the rest you'd throw in the trash.

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Your so smart and self proclaimed brilliant, that's why the Congress had to go through the steps of forgiving the Administration this week for breaking the FISA law for the sake of political expediency.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Your so smart and self proclaimed brilliant, that's why the Congress had to go through the steps of forgiving the Administration this week for breaking the FISA law for the sake of political expediency.

LOL!!!! I QUOTED YOU THE FISA COURT STATING THAT THEY TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THE PRESIDENT HAS THE CONSTITUTIONAL POWER AND THAT THEY COULD NOT ENCROACH ON IT

Seriously, Minor, the court that's in charge of overseeing the warrants says the President has the power.

Then, the House (including the Democrats and Nancy Pelosi) passed the legislation the President wanted:

Michelle Malkin » FISA reform, finally: “The bill is passed,” 293-129

The House is now voting on the FISA reform deal. Moonbat callers on C-SPAN are going nuts over Democrat capitulation. I’ll post the tally and roll call vote as soon as the yeas and nays are all counted. (Update: 12:51pm Eastern. “The bill is passed.” Vote was 293-129.) Now, on to the Senate. The 9/10 Democrats succumb to reality.

It will easily pass the Senate as well also controlled by Democrats.

Take off your tin foil hat, Minor--the government doesn't care about your 900 calls!!!

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Don't strain yourself with all you LOLs. For your reading pleasure: Obama Statement.

Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance – making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future

Gee, where is the Republican uproar over this blatant Obama lie?

Hmm, I guess FISA has a court, and it gets to supervise this intelligence activity, imagine that.

I guess your right, Fox, Bush never broke the law, he just ignored/bypassed it, something you and I would be locked up for and I'm not happy that Congress did not call him on it.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Don't strain yourself with all you LOLs. For your reading pleasure: Obama Statement.

Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance – making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future

Gee, where is the Republican uproar over this blatant Obama lie?

Hmm, I guess FISA has a court, and it gets to supervise this intelligence activity, imagine that.

I guess your right, Fox, Bush never broke the law, he just ignored it... and I'm not happy that Congress did not call him on it.

Oh yeah--I'm sure Obama bends over backwards to fairly portray the President.

Let me clue you in--Obama doesn't decide what's Constitutional and what's not--that's the job of the courts--and they've already decided. Hell, I could quote you and it would carry as much weight a quoting a poitician on the campaign trail.

So why don't you tell us--if warranteless wiretapping is illegal--why the House passed it by a wide margin when its controlled by Democrats?

And also tell us why Bill Clinton was never indicted because he did it as well.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

I guess your right, Fox, Bush never broke the law, he just ignored/bypassed it, something you and I would be locked up for and I'm not happy that Congress did not call him on it.

We'd be locked up only if we had 12 Moore-Ons on the jury--people like you scare the hell out of me!!! Talk about your Constitutional nightmare--honestly--the stuff you think people should go to jail for is absolutely frightening. Thank God the Constitution exists and thank God there are enough good judges that all of it is still applied notwithstanding people like you desiring otherwise.

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

So why don't you tell us--if warranteless wiretapping is illegal--why the House passed it by a wide margin when its controlled by Democrats?[/url]

And by how many members do the Democrats control Congress? Yes? I admit some Democrats don't want to deal with going with the flow when the Republican's were in charge.

And also tell us why Bill Clinton was never indicted because he did it as well.

Lied about a blow job? That's very whimsical compared to what this Administration has done. Hey wait, I'm still arguing with you... stop it! (talking to self).

12 Moore-Ons on the jury--people like you

And I thought you were above name calling. Now that is disappointing.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Lied about a blow job? That's very whimsical compared to what this Administration has done. Hey wait, I'm still arguing with you... stop it! (talking to self).

No--not the blow job, Clinton's administration conducted warrantless wiretaps as well as every other one before his (as far back as the technology was there).

Explain why he was not indicted or impeached for that?

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

And I thought you were above name calling. Now that is disappointing.

Nice twist and edit of my post to suit your needs---that's a two part sentence--12 Moore-Ons on a jury was the first part-independent of the second part. Also, I use "Moore-Ons" to refer to people that blindly follow the rants of Michael Moore (-On).

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

What is wrong with calling somebody a moron? :unsure:

Is dickhead preferred

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Nice twist and edit of my post to suit your needs---that's a two part sentence--12 Moore-Ons on a jury was the first part-independent of the second part. Also, I use "Moore-Ons" to refer to people that blindly follow the rants of Michael Moore (-On).

Oh sorry here:

We'd be locked up only if we had 12 Moore-Ons on the jury--people like you scare the hell out of me!!!

Oh, actually I think I miss read the actual meaning of your sentence. I'm not a Moore-On, I just scare the hell out of you. That's ok then.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Oh, actually I think I miss read the actual meaning of your sentence. I'm not a Moore-On, I just scare the hell out of you. That's ok then.

Its not meant as an insult. There is this rising tide of facist-like liberals that want to indict every and anyone in any position of political power that doesn't sqaure with their own views--you are just an example. Whatever you may think of Bush, nothing he's done warrants indictment--not even close-that's hysteria, yet you talk about it as though its a reality (apparently the "innocent until proven guilty" is another part of the Constitution you don't like). And its not just Bush--its other politicians and business owners. In this day and age, profit has become a bad word. I was listening just the other day to a lefist rant from some politician about profit and the guy kept talking about corporate profits as though it were the work of Satan--as though the CEOs of the companies should be indicted for having the nerve to generate a profit. For Godsakes that's what corporations are intended to do--its in their charters--if they lose money they go out of business. If they earn a profit that's good for the economy, their employees--everyone but socialists who of course despise profits because any successful capitalist enterprise weakens the chances of implementing a socialist regime.

 

[Minor Axis]

Re: Is the Bush Administration Guilty of Illegal Wiretapping? US Constitution--Lesson

Its not meant as an insult. There is this rising tide of facist-like liberals that want to indict every and anyone in any position of political power that doesn't sqaure with their own views--you are just an example. Whatever you may think of Bush, nothing he's done warrants indictment--not even close-that's hysteria, yet you talk about it as though its a reality (apparently the "innocent until proven guilty" is another part of the Constitution you don't like). And its not just Bush--its other politicians and business owners. In this day and age, profit has become a bad word. I was listening just the other day to a lefist rant from some politician about profit and the guy kept talking about corporate profits as though it were the work of Satan--as though the CEOs of the companies should be indicted for having the nerve to generate a profit. For Godsakes that's what corporations are intended to do--its in their charters--if they lose money they go out of business. If they earn a profit that's good for the economy, their employees--everyone but socialists who of course despise profits because any successful capitalist enterprise weakens the chances of implementing a socialist regime.

Not taken as an insult, sorry for the misunderstanding but... Allowing corporations to run the government by virtue of close ties and vested interests, something the Republican party cherishes is much closer to the faciest threat you imagine coming from any liberals in the country.

I can give you the prime example of an impeachable offense committed by this Administration- it's launching this country into a multi-year trillion dollar fiasco based on cooked intelligence and out right lies resulting in hundreds of thousands of deaths and thousands of U.S. military deaths. Sit there, wave the flag, sputter and deny it all you want.

Saddam with WMD? Even I with my limited knowledge knew that Saddam had NOTHING that could fly that threatened the U.S. He might have been a threat to his neighbors, but not to us. Of all the "bad" countries in the world, it's the ultimate in hypocrisy to state that we paid such a HUGE price to take down this major threat which in reality is a minor dictatorship. You know, all the Moore-Ons around? You could consider me one because Michael Moore is 100% correct when he said this war is about OIL and influence in the Middle East. Sure the excuse was WMD, then it was about Al-Queda and terrorists in Iraq, then it was Saddam the bad dictator, we needed to liberate those poor oppressed people. Right. What really sickens me is the making money aspect of this war. No bid contracts to Halliburten and a slew of Contractors- yeh baby, let the good times roll if your a friend of the Bush Administration. And you are a cheerleader for this travesty because no one in government could ever lie to you.