Is our country Imperialistic?

[Maritxu]

No all the time. Look at what we did to the Native Americans. Thats just one example.

Not to mention how the new wave of imperialism will affect the international terrorism problem.

 

[Maritxu]

I'm not saying it was right, but our country is still here.

The end doesn't always justify the means.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I could possibly agree, but the fact that something or some country could be worse that the US when it comes to this doesn't make what the US goverment does any better.

I didn't say it did. Don't mistake what I am saying. I am not dismissing or justifying wrong doings by the US or any country for that matter. I'm just merely pointing out that reality/ranking/pecking order isn't going to go away.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I could give you a better comparison example, if you own an ipod, you are allowing child labour and slavery to mantain itself.
All that I think we can ask to our countries is to be consistent with the values that they say they hold. You can't say you are for human rights and have a place called Guantanamo, or support a bad guy when it suits you (like in the case of the US and Sadam). For example, my goverment speaks about peace and compromises between nations but then sells militar equipment to conflicted countries in Africa. That's absolutely wrong.

Right and that is why I stated that when you look at things through that one dimensional lens you might as well say that all of us support terrorism as well, not just 'countries'.

We don't live in a utopian world so while treating people good is the right thing to do of course, there are people that are evil and no matter how well you treat them they are not going to play nice. It is like trying to fight an enemy fairly that fights unfairly - it is more difficult to accomplish and sh*t is going to happen - that is just life.

Again, I'm not making excuses for any wrong behavior, just stating that there are more to issues surrounding all of this than what is posted on this little website.

 

[GraceAbounds]

The end doesn't always justify the means.

That is a matter of opinion.

 

[Maritxu]

I didn't say it did. Don't mistake what I am saying. I am not dismissing or justifying wrong doings by the US or any country for that matter. I'm just merely pointing out that reality/ranking/pecking order isn't going to go away.

However, even though you know and understand the reallity, you wouldn't consider the US an imperialistic country?

 

[GraceAbounds]

However, even though you know and understand the reallity, you wouldn't consider the US an imperialistic country?

I explained my view/opinion/perspective in my firsts posts.

 

[Maritxu]

Right and that is why I stated that when you look at things through that one dimensional lens you might as well say that all of us support terrorism as well, not just 'countries'.

We don't live in a utopian world so while treating people good is the right thing to do of course, there are people that are evil and no matter how well you treat them they are not going to play nice. It is like trying to fight an enemy fairly that fights unfairly - it is more difficult to accomplish and sh*t is going to happen - that is just life.

Again, I'm not making excuses for any wrong behavior, just stating that there are more to issues surrounding all of this than what is posted on this little website.

I don't think it says nowhere in my post that we should go around treating bad people very good so that they would turn good. Actually what I was saying was pretty much the opposite.
I was not saying either that the website is the end to all answers, I just wanted to show you some example of when, during history the US has acted with imperialistic ideas. The closest example I can think of is Pinochet in Chile. That just shows how the US during History has acted imperialistically often enough for us to call it so. Not to mention the Sadam is good-Sadam is bad bullshit.

 

[Maritxu]

That is a matter of opinion.

is more a matter of context, but ok

 

[GraceAbounds]

is more a matter of context, but ok

No, 'the end justifies the means' is an ethical theory. It isn't an absolute, which makes it an opinion as I stated. That was the only point I was trying to make.

We are getting our wires crossed and not understanding one another, so I'll bow out of this discussion as I have no desire to argue with anyone.

 

[Maritxu]

No, 'the end justifies the means' is an ethical theory. It isn't an absolute, which makes it an opinion as I stated. That was the only point I was trying to make.

We are getting our wires crossed and not understanding one another, so I'll bow out of this discussion as I have no desire to argue with anyone.

Yes, it does look like we are misunderstanding each other, probably my fault.
I also wanted to state that it isn't an absolute, that's why I said "sometimes" and not "never".

 

[Maritxu]

On the Pinochet case:

"I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves." — Henry Kissinger [15]

I guess democracy is only good when the ones you like win.

"Not a nut or bolt shall reach Chile under Allende. Once Allende comes to power we shall do all within our power to condemn Chile and all Chileans to utmost deprivation and poverty." — Edward M. Korry, U.S. Ambassador to Chile, upon hearing of Allende's election. [5]

"Make the economy scream [in Chile to] prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him" — Richard Nixon, orders to CIA director Richard Helms on September 15, 1970.[16]

How is this for never minding other country's business? and that's morally questionable as well.

"It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup. It would be much preferable to have this transpire prior to 24 October but efforts in this regard will continue vigorously beyond this date. We are to continue to generate maximum pressure toward this end, utilizing every appropriate resource. It is imperative that these actions be implemented clandestinely and securely so that the USG and American hand be well hidden..." — A communique to the CIA base in Chile, issued on October 16, 1970.[17]

Sounds like imperialism to me...

"I think this is in the best interest of the people in Chile, and, certainly, in our best interest." - Gerald Ford at a presidential news conference in reference to U.S. operations in Chile.[18]

I thought people were supposed to choose what was in their best interest...

Not to mention:
Shaking Hands with Saddam Hussein

 

[All Else Failed]

I don't see how anyone can deny that we are imperialist, if they study History. Our country was founded on Imperialism.

 

[dt3]

I don't see how anyone can deny that we are imperialist, if they study History. Our country was founded on Imperialism.

I'll admit to not reading every page of this thread, but who said we aren't imperialistic?

 

[Maritxu]

I'll admit to not reading every page of this thread, but who said we aren't imperialistic?

That was Grace

 

[dt3]

That was Grace

Looks to me like she basically said "It is in some ways, but not in others":

My perspective on your question is this: The United States is not an imperialistic country in that it does not extend it's authority over other nations by going to war for personal expansion purposes. However being that the US is free, democratic, and capitalistic, United States citizens do business where ever they can find a place that will prove profitable.

Capitalism spreads economically, so I can see how that would be viewed as imperialistic. Unfortunately, but realistically, there has always been a 'pecking order'. It is not the pecking order that is wrong. It is the greed and wrong values of man that are involved in that pecking order that cause the injustice. But the world will never be rid of greed. The best we can hope for are enough generous people in the world to make up for the greedy ones.

 

[Maritxu]

Looks to me like she basically said "It is in some ways, but not in others":

Well maybe I understood her wrong then
She did say however that she doesn't think the US is politically imperialistic, and that was the only thing I was discussing with her.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'll admit to not reading every page of this thread, but who said we aren't imperialistic?

I was referring to a lot of People in America. I should have worded that better sorry haha.

 

[dt3]

I was referring to a lot of People in America. I should have worded that better sorry haha.

Gotcha

 

[GraceAbounds]

She did say however that she doesn't think the US is politically imperialistic

No, I didn't.

See the post of mine that Donnie quoted. That is my perspective and the only point I've been elaborating on in this thread.