Is our country Imperialistic?

[dt3]

That wouldn't justify invading another country and killing its people.

So, in order to ensure it's survival, a country shouldn't attack another country.

But, in order to ensure your survival, you should kill another person?

Same thing, bigger scale. Unless you're implying running out of oil wouldn't ruin our country?

 

[All Else Failed]

For the first 400 years of it's history, Switzerland was part of the Holy Roman Empire, which I'm sure you'll agree was imperialism at it's finest.

Modern day Switzerland. We're talking about Modern day countries here. Plus, during the HRE, Switzerland wasn't even a united country.

 

[All Else Failed]

So, in order to ensure it's survival, a country shouldn't attack another country.

But, in order to ensure your survival, you should kill another person?

Same thing, bigger scale. Unless you're implying running out of oil wouldn't ruin our country?

So if our fat asses suck up all the oil, we should attack an innocent country because our way of life is wasteful? Who really the bad guy here?


If America Runs out of Oil tomorrow, should we roll tanks across Canada's boarders and subjugate their entire population because we have orgasms over black gold?

 

[dt3]

Modern day Switzerland. We're talking about Modern day countries here. Plus, during the HRE, Switzerland wasn't even a united country.

The reason I'm NOT talking about modern day countries is that a couple hundred years, in the span of history, doesn't offer much of a scope or reference.

Modern Switzerland began in 1848. I don't think that's long enough to say if their method of government is going to work.

 

[dt3]

So if our fat asses suck up all the oil, we should attack an innocent country because our way of life is wasteful? Who really the bad guy here?


If America Runs out of Oil tomorrow, should we roll tanks across Canada's boarders and subjugate their entire population because we have orgasms over black gold?

Like I've said twice in this thread already, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S RIGHT! I'm saying that our country would be destroyed without being somewhat imperialistic. That's just the way it is at this point in time.

 

[All Else Failed]

The reason I'm NOT talking about modern day countries is that a couple hundred years, in the span of history, doesn't offer much of a scope or reference.

Modern Switzerland began in 1848. I don't think that's long enough to say if their method of government is going to work.

well its one of the best countries, living wise in the World and their doing just fine, so maybe we should take a few lessons from the Euros?

 

[All Else Failed]

Like I've said twice in this thread already, I'M NOT SAYING IT'S RIGHT! I'm saying that our country would be destroyed without being somewhat imperialistic. That's just the way it is at this point in time.

Exactly. That is why America needs to be changed and drastically reformed.

 

[dt3]

well its one of the best countries, living wise in the World and their doing just fine, so maybe we should take a few lessons from the Euros?

Maybe we should. But, as I said, maybe it's too early to tell how it'll end up. Time will tell, not silly e-arguments.

 

[Peter Parka]

The reason I'm NOT talking about modern day countries is that a couple hundred years, in the span of history, doesn't offer much of a scope or reference.

Modern Switzerland began in 1848. I don't think that's long enough to say if their method of government is going to work.

If we're not talking about modern day countries, should we still be suspicious of Germany?

 

[dt3]

Exactly. That is why America needs to be changed and drastically reformed.

I don't think it ever will be.

 

[dt3]

If we're not talking about modern day countries, should we still be suspicious of Germany?

Missing your point here Peter

 

[All Else Failed]

I don't think it ever will be.

Well, when it gets bad enough, I hope the people will do something about it.

 

[Peter Parka]

Modern Switzerland began in 1848. I don't think that's long enough to say if their method of government is going to work.

Nazis began in the 1920s, do you think they wern't given long enough to see if their system worked?

 

[All Else Failed]

Well, you don't even have to bring the Nazis up. Modern Germany's government is still quite new after being united as one.

 

[dt3]

Nazis began in the 1920s, do you think they wern't given long enough to see if their system worked?

You're not following my point. Of course Nazism didn't work. We know that because they're gone. It's too early to say modern Germany has a long-lasting government. The last 15 years in the course of history is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Peter Parka]

You're not following my point. Of course Nazism didn't work. We know that because they're gone. It's too early to say modern Germany has a long-lasting government. The last 15 years in the course of history is a drop in the bucket.

The're gone because we defeated the evil bastards. I'm just asking how long a government needs to be in power before we ask whether the've stood the test of time? Donnie seems to think that over 150 years isn't enough so how can you say that 30 odd years for the Nazis is too long?

 

[dt3]

The're gone because we defeated the evil bastards. I'm just asking how long a government needs to be in power before we ask whether the've stood the test of time? Donnie seems to think that over 150 years isn't enough so how can you say that 30 odd years for the Nazis is too long?

There's different standards, at least to me. To say something failed is easy. If it's not here, it failed.

But, to say something succeeded, it has to exist for a long period of time. I would say Democracies and Monarchies have succeeded thusfar. Not all of them, for sure, but they seem to provide the most stable governments over the course of history.

It's too early to judge Communism, in my opinion. It has failed massively in some cases, but it still exists in some places. So the jury is still out.

Do you see that there has to be different criteria for failure and success?

 

[Peter Parka]

There's different standards, at least to me. To say something failed is easy. If it's not here, it failed.

But, to say something succeeded, it has to exist for a long period of time. I would say Democracies and Monarchies have succeeded thusfar. Not all of them, for sure, but they seem to provide the most stable governments over the course of history.

It's too early to judge Communism, in my opinion. It has failed massively in some cases, but it still exists in some places. So the jury is still out.

Do you see that there has to be different criteria for failure and success?

Thanks, I'm kind of getting your point of view now. Personally I think monarchy should be abolished though. See, I can slag off my own country too!

 

[Maritxu]

But make no mistake, if the US wasn't up there in the pecking order of things, another country would be. That is not going to change. So the real question IMO is what countries do we want to be higher up? Countries like Iran? Or countries like the United States? It is always going to be good or bad or the lesser evil. Which is up to each individual to decide for themselves.

I could possibly agree, but the fact that something or some country could be worse that the US when it comes to this doesn't make what the US goverment does any better.

 

[Maritxu]

Many sites, including the one Maria listed, say that the US is friends with some of these countries because we bought natural resourcea from them and in doing so supported them. If they are going to tie it like that then I'm a supporter of terror also because I drive a car that uses oil. Things are not that simple and one dimensional.

I could give you a better comparison example, if you own an ipod, you are allowing child labour and slavery to mantain itself.
All that I think we can ask to our countries is to be consistent with the values that they say they hold. You can't say you are for human rights and have a place called Guantanamo, or support a bad guy when it suits you (like in the case of the US and Sadam). For example, my goverment speaks about peace and compromises between nations but then sells militar equipment to conflicted countries in Africa. That's absolutely wrong.