Is murder justified?
- Thread starter robertburtell
- Start date
Users who are viewing this thread
-
72Replies
-
2KViews
-
0Participant count
-
Participants list
FreeWorkVest
Active Member
Three times. Its in the Gospel of Fred. They when to Tiajuana for a weekend...thats why Jesus is a common name
GraceAbounds
Well-Known Member
Jesus didn't have his disciples sell their cloaks to buy swords to prune trees with. They were for protection/self defense. Luke 22:36-38
I would not defend myself if I believed for one minute the Lord didn't want me too. Being humble does not mean being a doormat. And turning the other cheek does not mean turning a blind eye to the evil in this world. One of the main characteristics of God throughout the whole Bible is one of protection. God expects us to protect ourselves and each other - our brothers and sisters in Christ.
I would not defend myself if I believed for one minute the Lord didn't want me too. Being humble does not mean being a doormat. And turning the other cheek does not mean turning a blind eye to the evil in this world. One of the main characteristics of God throughout the whole Bible is one of protection. God expects us to protect ourselves and each other - our brothers and sisters in Christ.
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
Evil Triumphs when good people do nothing to stop it.
I so f'n repped that
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Murder can in no way, ever be justified.
FreeWorkVest
Active Member
I found this :
The contextual meaning of swords
In contrast to the literal interpretation of using swords physically, the following interpretation works smoothly in context so that all the pieces of the puzzle fit together.
First, Jesus reminds the disciples of his mission for them before he arrived in Jerusalem (Luke 9:3; 10:1-17). Did they need a purse, a bag, or extra sandals? No, because people were friendlier, and their opposition to him was spread out over three years. Now, however, he is in Jerusalem, and he has undergone the compacted antagonism of religious leaders seeking to trap him with self-incriminating words. When the authorities are not present, they send their spies. The atmosphere is therefore tense, and the two swords--no more than that--represent the tension. Jesus' mission has shifted to a clear danger, and the disciples must beware. However, he certainly did not intend for his disciples to use the swords, as we just saw in the literal interpretation, above, for he is about to tell Peter to put away his sword.
Second, "For I tell you, this scripture must be fulfilled in me: 'And he was numbered among the lawless'" (Luke 22:37). By far the clearest purpose of the two swords is Jesus' reference to Isaiah's prophecy (53:12). He was destined to be falsely arrested like a criminal, falsely put on trial like a criminal, and even falsely crucified like a criminal. After all, he was hung on the cross between two thieves, which is also a fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy (Luke 23:32; 39-43).
What are criminals known for carrying with them? Weapons, and to be numbered among criminals, Jesus must also have weapons. That is why he said that only two swords would be enough--to fulfill this prophecy. Also, Matthew mentions fulfilling prophecy (26:54). If Peter had kept on physically using the sword to prevent Christ's arrest, then his death would not have taken place, so prophecy would have been thwarted. That is why Jesus told him to put his sword back in its place (Matthew 26:52). And in Luke he says to Peter after he cut off an ear, "No more of this!" (22:51).
The third and final non-literal interpretation says that Jesus frequently used physical objects (seeds, lamps, vineyards, coins, lost sheep and so on) to teach non-physical, universal truths, and the same is possibly true of the two swords. This interpretation is supported by Matthew 10:34: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth, but a sword." As we have seen, above, in context, he does not mean a literal sword that divides the family, but a spiritual and moral one. And it is precisely Luke who clarifies Jesus' meaning of "sword" as non-literal in the two parallel passages. If Luke does this in 12:51, then why not in 22:36-38
Here is the link to the whole thing :
American Thinker: Pacifism and the Sword in the Gospels
I have found that memory verses serve to obfuscate rather than clarify. The bible is given as a whole, to be studied and understood (The gift of discernment) By breaking it up into pieces, you run the risk of losing the meaning. IMO
GraceAbounds
Well-Known Member
I'm not a verse picker. I am all about reading the whole Bible in context. My spiritual gifts are discernment, Godly wisdom, and knowledge. I do not agree with your 'copy and paste' theology. I am not here to argue with you and divide the body of Christ. This issue will not change your salvation or mine. If you choose to not defend yourself, God gave you free will to not do so, but to depict Christ as a pacifist is wrong. He was anything but. He turned this world upside down.
When this kind of question comes up, I guess one thing worth considering is... why do we have laws against this in the first place?
I guess it's about protection of the individual. We do not want to be killed, therefore we want the law to protect us from being killed. Of course, some of us might want to be able to kill people, but even that 'right' would be outweighed in importance by the right of being protected from other people killing us.
Therefore, the law should, and does state that 'murder', as such, is unjustifiable.
I guess it's about protection of the individual. We do not want to be killed, therefore we want the law to protect us from being killed. Of course, some of us might want to be able to kill people, but even that 'right' would be outweighed in importance by the right of being protected from other people killing us.
Therefore, the law should, and does state that 'murder', as such, is unjustifiable.
charLIE2291
Active Member
Maybe a better tittle would have been is killing ever justified?
GraceAbounds
Well-Known Member
78,875Threads
2,185,391Messages
4,959Members