Inmate "Rights"

[Panacea]

I have mixed feelings. I have worked closely with the corrections system for 3 years, if that adds to my perspective. (been in the jails, been in the prison, seen the deputies behavior, seen tons of inmates in and out, seen the dorms v work release, etc)

On one hand, I find it morally wrong that I (a smart, willing to work, rule-abiding, possibly even decent person) do not have health insurance (and millions others like me and better than me) but criminals do. That said, I don't feel they are given the five-star treatment, and my problem is more with the health care system than the corrections system. If you get MRSA in the jail and your arm starts eating itself, you should get treatment. I couldn't, though, unless I wanted to go bankrupt.

I know that some people TRULY see jail/prison as a good alternative to real life. They are so developmentally stunted, emotionally impaired, that they cannot take responsibility for shit and just accept the hardships of jail and actually find a niche there. It's fucked up, because it costs taxpayers, and it's sad they don't want better.

On the other hand, I think people tend to really downplay incarceration. They're getting punished, trust me. Even in the jails/prisons with the tvs, the nice building (hell...the work release buidling was nicer than my effing office!), the good gym equipment, the games/books...the concept of removing freedom and depositing someone in a hostile environment (the deputies I know get boners from being inordinately cruel, right or wrong) is punishment.

Now...maybe some here do not agree with the law's mandate of no "cruel and unusual punishment". I think that is up for debate. Clearly, the governments feel removing all entertainment and "rights' (which, I agree with Tim, are just privileges and they are removed when an inmate is misbehaving) is cruel and unusual punishment. :dunno

It may very well be. The thing about jail/prison terms is...we haven't sentenced these people to death, right?? So it is expected they will come back into our civilized society after their sentence. The rates of recidivism are jacked sky high as it is, I don't want these people getting PTSD and wigging out on more innocent civilians because they were basically put in a dark closet for years.

If they are coming back to the real world, I think we should rehabilitate them, for OUR sake, not theirs. Just my thoughts.

 

[porterjack]

We've had the debate on inmate priviledges multiple times on this forum. :willy_nilly:

But on your point about inmate rights, I believe that inmmates should be treated like human beings and be given basic necesities.

completley agree with this

 

[porterjack]

Parka did bird

let us here his voice

 

[satinbutterfly]

If you commit a crime, a serious one, then by definition that means you have been removed from society and therefore have lost your rights as a citizen. It also, by definition, means you have commited a crime against society, be it murder, robbery, arson, whatever it is.

So no, inmates for me don't deserve rights.

:homo:

If the criminal justice departments all followed this, and was well known to the public... I think we'd have less crime.

:homo:'s

 

[Francis]

If you commit a crime, a serious one, then by definition that means you have been removed from society and therefore have lost your rights as a citizen. It also, by definition, means you have commited a crime against society, be it murder, robbery, arson, whatever it is.

So no, inmates for me don't deserve rights.

Define.... Murder ? Murder could be considered hitting someone with a car..
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...tempted-murder-after-overturning-ex-wifes-car

OK so your car gas pedal stays stuck and some sees that in a "different view" as you plow down your ex. The Jury finds you guilty of murder..

What Rights ? The right to a retrial... The car manufacturer admits to the issue and your car make, year and specific version is found to have that problem which was your defence all along but no one checked it. I guess you should not have that RIGHT to a retrial and car verification.


Also do you believe inmates have no rights to be treated like humans.. So we should just go around and torture them ? If so we are just as bad as them.

I agree they don't deserve benefits, to be pampered and have more rights than the general population but at what point do you stop and tell yourself you might as well be as barbaric as all those who cut hands off for theft and kill for the slightest thing..

I know, here's how we can cut down on crime.. Let execute people as soon as they do any crime, no matter how big or small.. Oh wait, they did that in the old days and it didn't work.. Damn..

 

[Springsteen]

Well we'd probably call that manslaughter. Depends. But murder in the broadest terms is the taking of someone's life. If more evidence came to light then yes you would have a right to a retrial.

Also do you believe inmates have no rights to be treated like humans.. So we should just go around and torture them ? If so we are just as bad as them.

Again you're putting words into my mouth, I just said they have lost their rights as a citizen because they have been taken out of society. No I'm not saying they should be forced to sleep on a cold floor or piss in a hole, that's kinda for the less developed world. But I don't agree with them getting a TV, a Playstation, football lessons with a former football (Ian Wright's behind bars) because they are priveliges, not rights.

The only crimes I'd execute people for is things to do with paedophilia, they CANNOT be rehabilitated.

 

[Zorak]

The only crimes I'd execute people for is things to do with paedophilia, they CANNOT be rehabilitated.

Rather, you just don't want them rehabilitated. Which is fine, just say that.

 

[Springsteen]

Because they can't be. It's ingrained into them that they think it's ok to look at pictures of naked children, or have sex with children against their consent. So why waste time?

 

[Zorak]

Define.... Murder ? Murder could be considered hitting someone with a car..
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...tempted-murder-after-overturning-ex-wifes-car

OK so your car gas pedal stays stuck and some sees that in a "different view" as you plow down your ex. The Jury finds you guilty of murder..

What Rights ? The right to a retrial... The car manufacturer admits to the issue and your car make, year and specific version is found to have that problem which was your defence all along but no one checked it. I guess you should not have that RIGHT to a retrial and car verification.


Also do you believe inmates have no rights to be treated like humans.. So we should just go around and torture them ? If so we are just as bad as them.

I agree they don't deserve benefits, to be pampered and have more rights than the general population but at what point do you stop and tell yourself you might as well be as barbaric as all those who cut hands off for theft and kill for the slightest thing..

I know, here's how we can cut down on crime.. Let execute people as soon as they do any crime, no matter how big or small.. Oh wait, they did that in the old days and it didn't work.. Damn..

:homo:

I just wouldn't treat criminals like shit, it's only going to alienate them further.

 

[Zorak]

Because they can't be. It's ingrained into them that they think it's ok to look at pictures of naked children, or have sex with children against their consent. So why waste time?

Who ingraines it into them?

The secret paedo camp where all people with paedo gene go at the age of 5 to learn the secret ways of the paedo?

 

[Springsteen]

No, they do. By doing those things I mentioned. I don't know why it happens, much like I don't know why people kill others. It might just be a case of 'because they do' Now I don't give a shit if they were abused as a child, they know the difference between right and wrong and there is no excuse for fiddling with a kid. If anyone touched my Sister or my future kids. I'd beat him to a bloody pulp.

 

[Zorak]

No, they do. By doing those things I mentioned. I don't know why it happens, much like I don't know why people kill others. It might just be a case of 'because they do' Now I don't give a shit if they were abused as a child, they know the difference between right and wrong and there is no excuse for fiddling with a kid. If anyone touched my Sister or my future kids. I'd beat him to a bloody pulp.

So if being touched in their own youth is a factor for some, surely then they're not quite as "ingrained" as you claim. Perhaps?

 

[Panacea]

Research on the brains of criminals is showing sexual deviance, violence, and murderous tendencies are neurological and maybe only slightly triggered by environmental factors. There is not currently enough known to treat these things with medication, but most murderers and pedophiles cannot be rehabilitated. Their levels of antisocial tendencies are far too dangerous. We don't allow murderers back on the streets as often as child rapists.

 

[Springsteen]

So if being touched in their own youth is a factor for some, surely then they're not quite as "ingrained" as you claim. Perhaps?

I didn't even claim it to be a factor, I just said it as happening, as it does. But I'm sorry, if a child abuser came up to me as a Judge with that story, I'd still give him the chair, because it's a matter of knowing that abusing a child is WRONG. It was wrong 100 years ago, it'll be wrong in another 100 years, and it's wrong now.

 

[Francis]

Well we'd probably call that manslaughter. Depends. But murder in the broadest terms is the taking of someone's life. If more evidence came to light then yes you would have a right to a retrial.

What you call it and what a court calls it are totally different things.. Don't "assume" it would be called anything less.

Again you're putting words into my mouth, I just said they have lost their rights as a citizen because they have been taken out of society. No I'm not saying they should be forced to sleep on a cold floor or piss in a hole, that's kinda for the less developed world. But I don't agree with them getting a TV, a Playstation, football lessons with a former football (Ian Wright's behind bars) because they are priveliges, not rights.

The only crimes I'd execute people for is things to do with paedophilia, they CANNOT be rehabilitated.

So no, inmates for me don't deserve rights.

Your words not mine.. I did not put words in your mouth only expressed a sarcastic view to make a point.

Like Tim said "Privileges" and "Rights" are separate things..

While I agree pedophiles are the scum of the earth, remember that some have been put in jail under that label that turned out to be false.. Would you want to be one of them and let loose into Gen Pop knowing you had not done it but labelled a Pedo or executed ? I guess execution would probably be prefered to be honest..

Also keep in mind that while criminals are in prison, if they have absolutely nothing to do but the basics, they will teach each other their skills.. People love to learn, even criminals, so bad ass dudes will teach open minded younger dues what they know, if they have nothing better to do in time.. Best to keep them busy doing something and the busier the better.. This is why many believe out of jail rehab is much better for petty or white collar criminals so they don't get hardened and cost the tax payer much less if done properly.

The belief that trying to scare general population with harsher jail terms will make people less likely to commit crimes is a fallacy by those who want the death penalty.. It has been proven it does not deter crime at all.

As for make work programs, well we all know what Unions think of those, they steal jobs so they have for the most part been axed.. You can't even talk about sending in the far North, Clear Roads or Make license Plates any longer without a Union jumping in and saying it is taking away a High Paying job away from a good Union member..

 

[Francis]

Because they can't be. It's ingrained into them that they think it's ok to look at pictures of naked children, or have sex with children against their consent. So why waste time?

Do you know you are doing a true Pedophile a favour by executing him.. What a nice guy you are.. :thumbdown

I rather the bastard rot in jail for his sins and we make him suffer then put him out of his misery quickly.. The fact he would have made a child suffer and give him a quick way out makes me sick.. :mad

The cost of execution is just as much as keeping him alive but the fucker rots in jail.. :willy_nilly:

 

[Springsteen]

While I agree pedophiles are the scum of the earth, remember that some have been put in jail under that label that turned out to be false.. Would you want to be one of them and let loose into Gen Pop knowing you had not done it but labelled a Pedo or executed ? I guess execution would probably be prefered to be honest..

But it's difficult to not prove you were a paedophile. Let's say you were caught with 1000's of pictures of naked kids. And it's been proven you own this PC and it's you who have downloaded these pics. You are then a paedophile.

The only thing I don't fully agree with is vigilante groups, yeah it's always good if a paedophile gets his. But let's say you have this backwater inbred place like Wales where people can't read properly and they read this.

Mr Jones, a paediatrician from County wherever.....

They *could* misread that as paedophile and go down and hunt this Mr Jones.

Also, he is a paedophile, that is a very bad crime. I can see what you're saying and currently I fully support telling the prisoners who this person is in this prison. But I'd rather not know he could be out in 5 years (That's a known sentence for them)

 

[NuckingFuts]

I have worked Corrections for the last couple of years. The way I see it is. Fuck them. Society demed them unfit to be with the rest of us. So they lost thier rights. Especially the Diaper snipers. However the society that we live in, who really have no clue what it is like behind those wall. Seem to think that they should be treated just like everyone else.

 

[Tuffdisc]

They should get the bare minimum. No TV, no games rooms or shops. It's not a fucking holiday.

I have to agree

 

[Dana]

Who ingraines it into them?

The secret paedo camp where all people with paedo gene go at the age of 5 to learn the secret ways of the paedo?

It's like genetically imprinted or something... i don't think they can help themselves and honestly I don't think they can be rehabilitated...