If You Were A Dictator...

[Carthage]

wait whats wrong with that? you can't overtax poor people. Tax people who have the money. They won't be hurt by it.

No, you can't overtax poor people, but you shouldn't tax the rich just because they're rich . They earned that money through their own hard effort and nothing other then the point of a gun can force him to give it up. Which is what a tax is - the point of a gun. It's his money, he earned it, and if he wants to hoard it all in an underground vault, then I say God Bless Him, he's a man to, and he deserves to do with that money whatever he wants!

(Almost whatever; he shouldn't be allowed to buy a personal army or something)

He was a NATIONAL socialist, which is very different from a democratic socialist. Democratic socialists enjoy everything you listed and support them.

We're speaking in terms of economics. He was a corporatist, officially, which is a sort of Government-Corporation mix. And WHENEVER the government gets involved with corporations, for better or for worse (appart from protecting it), then it's socialism. He wasn't a radical socialist, not as left as you, but he certainly wasn't pro-free market.

Ugh...Utopias can never work because democracy aims for mediocrity in order to have equality. That has always been true, and utopias can't be mediocre, unless you want to throw democracy out the window. Utopias are stuff of dreams, not the real world.

I used the term badly; I didn't really mean utopia, per se, but rather, a peaceful, just, and profitable society.

The problem with all land being private is the fact that individuals will expend it all JUST for a profit. What about public parks? Public national parks? I wouldn't trust them in the hands of corporations at all

Um...what's wrong with it being exploited just for profit? Public Parks could be turned into private parks, which charge a fee for entrance. That's going to pay for it's growth and maintainment of it's beauty. It will make it better for the visitors.
Seriously, though, unless the income tax was abolished, most people were objectivists, the unions power was broken, the regulations were stripped, and a WHOLE load of other things, I couldn't logically support the abolishment of public property.

Politics and war are one, and are basically inseparable. They go hand in hand because all war deals with politics. I cringe at the very thought of letting generals go unchecked at what they do. I can only imagine the undocumented crimes that would occur.

Yeah, I'm beginning to see your guys's point of view on that one.:surrender

There is no free market in America damn it. Ever hear of the FED?

There isn't a completely free market, or even a majorly free market, but there's still something of one. Bill Gates is a (mostly) private citizen, is he not? And he owns a (mostly) private company, right? So it's at least partly a free market.

 

[Sparkey Duck]

I would make everyone wear feather boas and sing a happy song, one with the word 'bottoms' in it...

 

[Maulds]

.....thats a terrible idea.

What do you mean my idea is terrible? Its the only fair way. Just because some people work hard and sacrifice and earn it themself doesn't mean they deserve it more than people who aren't willing to do the work themself.

Are you saying everyone should be expected to make their own way or suffer the consequences? You monster.....you...you...Conservative...welcome aboard. :clap

 

[Carthage]

What do you mean my idea is terrible? Its the only fair way. Just because some people work hard and sacrifice and earn it themself doesn't mean they deserve it more than people who aren't willing to do the work themself.

Are you saying everyone should be expected to make their own way or suffer the consequences? You monster.....you...you...Conservative...welcome aboard. :clap

:clap:clap:clap

Good job on converting him! He can continue to deny it, but NOW, it's the truth is unavoidable.

 

[Toucan42]

This is a good thread!

For starters if I were a dictator I would provide universal health care, eliminate corporate tax loopholes, encourage investment in Green technologies, tax social security income for top earners (they don't need it) ... lots of things come to mind - I'll have to return to this when I have a bit more time!

 

[All Else Failed]

What do you mean my idea is terrible? Its the only fair way. Just because some people work hard and sacrifice and earn it themself doesn't mean they deserve it more than people who aren't willing to do the work themself.

Are you saying everyone should be expected to make their own way or suffer the consequences? You monster.....you...you...Conservative...welcome aboard. :clap

Um, thats not just a conservative ideal. Nor is it even under any ownership of any one ideology. Its common sense.

A kid that has a 4.0 got it because they worked hard. A slacker with a 2.0 got it because they are dense. By being "fair" (which isn't even really fair, its actually totally unfair) you are slowing progression down by pandering to the lowest common denominator. That is digression.

 

[All Else Failed]

No, you can't overtax poor people, but you shouldn't tax the rich just because they're rich . They earned that money through their own hard effort and nothing other then the point of a gun can force him to give it up. Which is what a tax is - the point of a gun. It's his money, he earned it, and if he wants to hoard it all in an underground vault, then I say God Bless Him, he's a man to, and he deserves to do with that money whatever he wants!

(Almost whatever; he shouldn't be allowed to buy a personal army or something)



We're speaking in terms of economics. He was a corporatist, officially, which is a sort of Government-Corporation mix. And WHENEVER the government gets involved with corporations, for better or for worse (appart from protecting it), then it's socialism. He wasn't a radical socialist, not as left as you, but he certainly wasn't pro-free market.




I used the term badly; I didn't really mean utopia, per se, but rather, a peaceful, just, and profitable society.



Um...what's wrong with it being exploited just for profit? Public Parks could be turned into private parks, which charge a fee for entrance. That's going to pay for it's growth and maintainment of it's beauty. It will make it better for the visitors.
Seriously, though, unless the income tax was abolished, most people were objectivists, the unions power was broken, the regulations were stripped, and a WHOLE load of other things, I couldn't logically support the abolishment of public property.



Yeah, I'm beginning to see your guys's point of view on that one.:surrender



There isn't a completely free market, or even a majorly free market, but there's still something of one. Bill Gates is a (mostly) private citizen, is he not? And he owns a (mostly) private company, right? So it's at least partly a free market.

Everyone earns money, and everyone has a portion of it taken away with taxes. Its just common sense to tax the ones who are multimillionaires more than a guy that is on disability and can't get a decent job.


Whenever governments get involved with corporations, its bad? You do know that governments breaking up monopolies and ending corporate abuse is a good thing, right? Safety regulations, unions and so on are all good things and only make industry better for both the workers and the corporations. If there are no checks and balances you'll have corporate tyranny. And lol at me being "radical". If anything I'm more center left. Radical socialism would be like, anarcho-communism.


ALL LAND that is exploited for profit will always lead to land abuse and environmental impact. Everyone becoming objectivists is frankly terrifying. Objectivism is seriously a cult.

 

[GraceAbounds]

If I were a Dictator I'd resign.

 

[Carthage]

Everyone earns money, and everyone has a portion of it taken away with taxes. Its just common sense to tax the ones who are multimillionaires more than a guy that is on disability and can't get a decent job.

How about we not tax anyone? BTW, they earn it, just because they aren't hurt by it doesn't make it any more right. That's like saying it's all right to break into someones house because they aren't hurt by it.

Whenever governments get involved with corporations, its bad? You do know that governments breaking up monopolies and ending corporate abuse is a good thing, right? Safety regulations, unions and so on are all good things and only make industry better for both the workers and the corporations. If there are no checks and balances you'll have corporate tyranny. And lol at me being "radical". If anything I'm more center left. Radical socialism would be like, anarcho-communism.

No, gov't breaking up monopolies is a BAD thing. The monopolies will die off themselves, sooner or later. When you start to raise prices, which is why you say monopolies are bad, then a new company will come in with cheaper prices and get higher then the monopoly. The monopoly could try to buy out the new company, but if the new company doesn't want to get off the stage, it doesn't have to. I agree that UNIONS are good for keeping the corps in line, much better then the government. And as long as we keep the unions, we keep a system of checks and balances. I don't see how a massive bureaucracy sending safety regulators and raising wages beyond what they should be is promotional to a checks and balances system. It breaks up the natural relationship between worker and employer.

ALL LAND that is exploited for profit will always lead to land abuse and environmental impact. Everyone becoming objectivists is frankly terrifying. Objectivism is seriously a cult

Land abuse? Land is inanimate, it can't be emotionally distraught.Physically, it will be fine. I am 100% positive that people are not stupid enough to completely destroy the thing which brings them profit. And the whole environment being in danger thing is SOOO overrated. It's fine.
And EVERYONE becoming objectivists would be bad, because we have a death of the trade of ideas. But most people would be fine, because then most people would strive for their personal best, their personal happiness, and personal achievement. Plus, we'd have a return to rationality. That would all be a good thing. And objectivism is not a cult, it's a philosophy.

 

[Carthage]

Create your own country!!

Thought this might be fun... Kind of a take off on the "If you were a dictator..." thread.
There's are a bunch of land masses that just popped out of the ground on the earth, which just became huge all of a sudden-like. You have been given a piece of one, and a bunch of people are going to settle there. You have complete and unrestricted rule over your country as it's first architect.
Describe your government, invent social traditions, religions, name your country, describe it's aspects, etc. etc.
I'll have mine up in just a little bit. Guess what it'll be called? Carthage (after the ancient Mediterranean civilization that corresponds with my name)!

 

[Carthage]

Re: Create your own country!!

The Capitalist Republic of Carthage

​

The Capitalist Republic of Carthage is a small country on the coast of the sea. It’s capitol is the city of Carthage. It’s President is Chief Executive Administrator “******* ****1.” It is a very socially conservative nation, being predominately Christian. The officially declared state philosophy (which means little) is “Christian Objectivism”. It was founded by it’s current leader several minutes ago, and has a population of an unknown quantity, but it’s definitely in the millions.
The Government is in the form of a constitutional republic, but is referred to in Carthage as a “Capitalist Republic,” stemming from it’s complete absence of business regulations and the general admiration and respect for business tycoons. There is a senate which makes and passes laws, with 200 members, each elected once every 7 years. The Chief Executive Administrator is elected every 10 years, and can run as many times as he/she wishes. The Government is very small, spending about 88% of it’s income on military defense and police.
The Economy is booming, although there is a large portion of society out on the streets. Begging is very uncommon, as it is looked upon poorly by many people. There are, however, certain large groups aiming at the reversal of this policy, of which the current CEA is a member.
Race nor sex have ever been problems. Nationalism is very prevalent. Christmas is a holiday celebrated like it’s the last day anyone’s going to be alive. Entertainment mostly consists of classical music, movies, and books. The book market in Carthage exceeds that of any country on the planet. The most famous author is the CEA, who was also an author before going on to lead the nation. Business men are looked on like entertainers in American society.

 

[Carthage]

Re: Create your own country!!

1. My Name, blocked out.

 

[FreeWorkVest]

I would also have a national lottery. And legalize gambling. I would make healthcare available to everybody. I would enact laws protecting unions. I would institute a progressive tax PLUS a 50% tax on personal income over 10 million dollars, pre tax.
I would re-regulate the airlines, insurance, finance and media. Also public utilities.

Guarantee free education for every citizen through 2 years of college.
Increase pay of those serving in the military, and restore the original, post WWII GI Bill.
I would upgrade the nations rail system and limit the number of tractor trailers liscenced(sp?) to travel the interstate highways

 

[Pudding Time]

Re: Create your own country!!

The Democratic Communist Monarchy Of Calistralia.
-Parliament ran.
-Moneyless society.
-Weed is legal.
-Carbon emissions are illegal.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Due to the striking similarity of this thread and the thread by Carthage, they have been merged

 

[All Else Failed]

How about we not tax anyone? BTW, they earn it, just because they aren't hurt by it doesn't make it any more right. That's like saying it's all right to break into someones house because they aren't hurt by it.



No, gov't breaking up monopolies is a BAD thing. The monopolies will die off themselves, sooner or later. When you start to raise prices, which is why you say monopolies are bad, then a new company will come in with cheaper prices and get higher then the monopoly. The monopoly could try to buy out the new company, but if the new company doesn't want to get off the stage, it doesn't have to. I agree that UNIONS are good for keeping the corps in line, much better then the government. And as long as we keep the unions, we keep a system of checks and balances. I don't see how a massive bureaucracy sending safety regulators and raising wages beyond what they should be is promotional to a checks and balances system. It breaks up the natural relationship between worker and employer.




Land abuse? Land is inanimate, it can't be emotionally distraught.Physically, it will be fine. I am 100% positive that people are not stupid enough to completely destroy the thing which brings them profit. And the whole environment being in danger thing is SOOO overrated. It's fine.
And EVERYONE becoming objectivists would be bad, because we have a death of the trade of ideas. But most people would be fine, because then most people would strive for their personal best, their personal happiness, and personal achievement. Plus, we'd have a return to rationality. That would all be a good thing. And objectivism is not a cult, it's a philosophy.

I'm curious as to how your government will get money if there are no taxes?


The sooner monopolies are broken up the better. Why would you just wait? Monopolies harm other businesses and workers. You're WAY too much of a corporatist.


I'm not applying human emotions to land, damn it. You can abuse land like sapping it of all of it's natural resources for instance. People will do anything for a buck, even if it means environmental devastation. People will keep abusing natural resources as long as they can make profit, and they will probably do so until they are all expended and then move on to another, and another and another. You'll have a bunch of worthless land left. I wouldn't say harming the environment is "overrated". We're doing a very fine job at raping earth even as we speak. We greedily hoard it's bounties and neglect or destroy many others. There NEEDS to be some sort of government regulation to keep some land HANDS OFF. National parks, for instance.


Lots of philosophies are cults BTW.

 

[Carthage]

I'm curious as to how your government will get money if there are no taxes?

MAYBE a small sales tax, and charaties. Ted Turner donated MILLIONS to the UN of all organizations. All the government has to do is say, hey, can you guys give us some money?, cause if you dont, riots will burn your factories and there'll be no police to stop them.

The sooner monopolies are broken up the better. Why would you just wait? Monopolies harm other businesses and workers. You're WAY too much of a corporatist.

Answer to the first part - because the Government taking down a monopoly is a violation of the natural laws of economics. If a company has grown like that all by itself, then I say it's deserving to be a monopoly. The government has no right to take that away from them. When it starts hurting other buisnesses and workers, thats when it falls, because when the buisnesses and workers refuse to work with/for the gov't, then it has no base.
To the second part- do you know what a corporatist is? It's a person who believes in merging the corporations and the government. I believe in keeping them separate. If you mean, "I'm too much of a corporatist" in the fact that I support corporations too much, then that's fine, but I'd rephrase it as "You're too much of a big business supporter." Corporatism is a fascist element.

I'm not applying human emotions to land, damn it. You can abuse land like sapping it of all of it's natural resources for instance. People will do anything for a buck, even if it means environmental devastation. People will keep abusing natural resources as long as they can make profit, and they will probably do so until they are all expended and then move on to another, and another and another. You'll have a bunch of worthless land left. I wouldn't say harming the environment is "overrated". We're doing a very fine job at raping earth even as we speak. We greedily hoard it's bounties and neglect or destroy many others. There NEEDS to be some sort of government regulation to keep some land HANDS OFF. National parks, for instance.

The environment is overrated. It's not like wealth is a static quality and there's only so much of it in the earth. We'll always have at least some things here to help us. And when we run out, we'll have been to other planets. And terra-formed them. So we won't run out of natural wealth anytime soon.
Oh, and the environment is overrated.

Lots of philosophies are cults BTW.

What's your definition of a cult?

 

[All Else Failed]

The social democracy of The fatherland

*Broad constitution that emphasizes personal and individual freedom and strong social democratic involvement by the people. The constitution can be altered by the Parliament, but only after a public vote on the change.
*Strong, but fair government INVOLVEMENT. Not Authority.
*Small peninsula in a Norwegian-like environment
*Population is around 6,000,000 people
*Proportional voting system
*To encourage voting turn out, everyone who votes recives a small tax right off.
*Progressive taxation (fair amounts, though)
*Single prime minister with executive authority
*Bills and laws must be reviewed by privy council, including the wishes of the prime minister
*Legislation is done by a parliament, which consists of 185 members who are elected by proportional majority. Elections for parliamentary officials are held every 4 years.
*Political parties are discouraged
*Strong welfare state for people who actually need it
*Strong local defense force only used for national defense.
*Nationalized health care system.
*Lobbyists and special interest group's power is to be in strong check so no favors are dealt out unjustly.
*Strong regulations on corporations that do not impeded business, but make sure worker's rights and ethical and environmental practices are being used.
*The economy is a mixed economy, relying on a strong but efficient mix of socialism and capitalism (see Scandinavian models for info)
*Full paid leave for sick/pregnant/injured employees
*Drinking age is 19
*Strong emphasis on learning and education. Educational standards are to be set very high in order to produce a highly informed, skilled population.
*Strong agricultural economy with strong emphasis on Biodynamic agriculture
*Strong engineering sector mostly dealing with architecture/electronics and vehicles
*Strong scientific research and facilities
*Unions are respected and highly organized to ensure worker's rights are kept up to date and relevant to the employer
*All cars produced or owned must be capable of 45 MPG or more
*Energy used would largely consist of electricity generating windmills off the coast, hydro power from dams, geothermal (where possible) and solar farms. *Every home and structure MUST have sufficient solar panels on it to power at least 35-45% of its own power
*Colleges and universities are either free or moderately priced in tuition in order to give all people a chance
*Logic, reason and all other classical philosophies shall be held high in honor
*Ethics, morals and social behavior is strongly influenced by enlightenment and renaissance ideals. There is very little religiosity, and the majority of the population are either atheist or agnostic or very liberal theists.
*There are 4 major national holidays, that last for a week and a half each. One for each season: Spring, summer, fall and winter. Activities include massive public feasts, music, contests, fairs, spoken word, speeches, poetry, art and so on. All workers get paid leave when taking the holiday off.
*The fatherland will be well known and gain world renown for it's many great authors, poets, philosophers and artists.

​

 

[All Else Failed]

MAYBE a small sales tax, and charaties. Ted Turner donated MILLIONS to the UN of all organizations. All the government has to do is say, hey, can you guys give us some money?, cause if you dont, riots will burn your factories and there'll be no police to stop them.


Answer to the first part - because the Government taking down a monopoly is a violation of the natural laws of economics. If a company has grown like that all by itself, then I say it's deserving to be a monopoly. The government has no right to take that away from them. When it starts hurting other buisnesses and workers, thats when it falls, because when the buisnesses and workers refuse to work with/for the gov't, then it has no base.
To the second part- do you know what a corporatist is? It's a person who believes in merging the corporations and the government. I believe in keeping them separate. If you mean, "I'm too much of a corporatist" in the fact that I support corporations too much, then that's fine, but I'd rephrase it as "You're too much of a big business supporter." Corporatism is a fascist element.



The environment is overrated. It's not like wealth is a static quality and there's only so much of it in the earth. We'll always have at least some things here to help us. And when we run out, we'll have been to other planets. And terra-formed them. So we won't run out of natural wealth anytime soon.
Oh, and the environment is overrated.




What's your definition of a cult?

I'm not going to respond to the Tax stuff, since we both have very different views on how society and government should be funded and it will go nowhere/ same with monopolies. Arguing with an objectivist about corporations is like fucking for virginity.



I don't get what you mean by "the environment is overrated"? We NEED the environment to exist happily as a species. Abusing it is only hurting ourselves. You suggesting we crassly and greedily use up earth and move to a different planet to colonize and greedily rape and pillage is terrible and laughable. Nature deserves out respect.



A cult thing was more of a joke, but I've known rand adherents personally, and they act like she is some sort of god. Its pretty disturbing.

 

[Carthage]

I don't get what you mean by "the environment is overrated"? We NEED the environment to exist happily as a species. Abusing it is only hurting ourselves. You suggesting we crassly and greedily use up earth and move to a different planet to colonize and greedily rape and pillage is terrible and laughable. Nature deserves out respect.

I should say, I think the whole "The environment is in danger thing" is overrated. The environment is fine. I like nature, I'm a BIG fisherman. But I don't think we need to be so worried about the environment. It's all a bunch of hype, the globe will take care of itself.



[quote[A cult thing was more of a joke, but I've known rand adherents personally, and they act like she is some sort of god. Its pretty disturbing.[/quote]

FINALLY!!!!!!! WE AGREE ON SOMETHING ABOUT PHILOSOPHY!!!!!! PEOPLE WHO THINK RAND=GOD ARE DISTURBING!!!!!!!!!!!! HOLY MOTHER F&%#ING $*#&, I'D NEVER HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD COME TO PASS!!!!!!!

:jk, I don't really think it's that big of a deal, there are things we already agree about.