I thought this was interesting

[All Else Failed]

TIME Mulitmedia | The War at Home

 

[dt3]

I don't have a single ounce of respect for any of them.

 

[All Else Failed]

I know you wouldn't, but thats besides the point.

 

[dt3]

Then what is the point?

One said he left because basic training tried to "reprogram him". That's the point of boot camp.

A couple said they didn't want to do illegal things. But everybody knows you're legally obligated to disobey illegal orders. There's about 100 different recourses if you're put in that situation.

One left because he was in Germany and saw wounded people. From what he said, it sounded like that was his job. If you don't like seeing wounded, maybe you shouldn't be a medic.

None of them seem to realize that they signed a contract.

 

[All Else Failed]

I just think these guys had legit reasons for leaving, and there's no reason to bad mouth them.

Yes, the point of bootcamp is to reprogram people to kill, and be ok with it, I can see how that would erk some people.

 

[dt3]

I just think these guys had legit reasons for leaving, and there's no reason to bad mouth them.

Yes, the point of bootcamp is to reprogram people to kill, and be ok with it, I can see how that would erk some people.

First off, the "reprogramming" is infinitely more about teamwork, camaraderie and the ability to overcome difficult situations than it is about killing. I'd say 3 or 4 out of the 13 weeks were about "killing people".

And who the hell would enlist without realizing that?

 

[All Else Failed]

First off, the "reprogramming" is infinitely more about teamwork, camaraderie and the ability to overcome difficult situations than it is about killing. I'd say 3 or 4 out of the 13 weeks were about "killing people".

And who the hell would enlist without realizing that?

in the end though, all of that team work training is for staying alive to kill better.


I'm sure they knew what they were signing up for, but different people react to things in different ways.

 

[dt3]

in the end though, all of that team work training is for staying alive to kill better.

I think you'd be surprised what percentage of the military is in a direct combat-related MOS.

I'm sure they knew what they were signing up for, but different people react to things in different ways.

The ones that get my respect are the ones who go out and do their job to the best of their abilities. The ones who decide to run away get no respect from me.

I hated life probably 80% of the time I was in. Couldn't wait to get out. That didn't stop me from doing what I had to do.

Iraq was a living hell, every single day. After 6 months there, I got 2 weeks leave to come home. When those 2 weeks were up, you know what I did? Got back on a plane and went back for 6 more months. Left my wife of 7 months (who I had seen for exactly 2 weeks and 2 days of our marriage) crying in the airport. You think I wanted to do that? Hell no. Nobody in their right mind would.

So how come so many people do it?

Responsibility. Honor. Courage. Commitment. Duty. Esprit de Corps. I know those are all just words to you and you'll never understand what they mean the way these people do.

They do it because it's the right thing to do. It's what they signed up for.

Any thing less is pure cowardice. Those people shouldn't even be allowed back into America.

 

[All Else Failed]

I think you'd be surprised what percentage of the military is in a direct combat-related MOS.



The ones that get my respect are the ones who go out and do their job to the best of their abilities. The ones who decide to run away get no respect from me.

I hated life probably 80% of the time I was in. Couldn't wait to get out. That didn't stop me from doing what I had to do.

Iraq was a living hell, every single day. After 6 months there, I got 2 weeks leave to come home. When those 2 weeks were up, you know what I did? Got back on a plane and went back for 6 more months. Left my wife of 7 months (who I had seen for exactly 2 weeks and 2 days of our marriage) crying in the airport. You think I wanted to do that? Hell no. Nobody in their right mind would.

So how come so many people do it?

Responsibility. Honor. Courage. Commitment. Duty. Esprit de Corps. I know those are all just words to you and you'll never understand what they mean the way these people do.

They do it because it's the right thing to do. It's what they signed up for.

Any thing less is pure cowardice. Those people shouldn't even be allowed back into America.

I know the overwhelming majority of military jobs don't involve killing. I'm referring to the ones that do.



and the rest of your post is a bit ridiculous. Not let them back in? I thought you were in the military to defend freedoms, not want to take them away. Oh well. I applaud these people for leaving. I don't blame them for not wanting to go back into that shit hole. I'd rather have a normal life in the states, making things better here.

 

[dt3]

and the rest of your post is a bit ridiculous. Not let them back in? I thought you were in the military to defend freedoms, not want to take them away. Oh well. I applaud these people for leaving. I don't blame them for not wanting to go back into that shit hole. I'd rather have a normal life in the states, making things better here.

Allow me to explain a little more.

The military doesn't go into a combat zone carrying dead weight. Every single person has a role set out for them. They are expected to carry out that role.

To simply leave and run away leaves a gaping hole in a unit. A hole that must be filled by the other people in the unit. It increases the workload and stress on everybody else. The slack has to be taken up by people braver than the deserter. How would you feel if the guy who took your place got killed?

Deserting is a purely selfish act. Putting others at risk for your own personal safety. There's no honor or respect in that.

 

[All Else Failed]

Allow me to explain a little more.

The military doesn't go into a combat zone carrying dead weight. Every single person has a role set out for them. They are expected to carry out that role.

To simply leave and run away leaves a gaping hole in a unit. A hole that must be filled by the other people in the unit. It increases the workload and stress on everybody else. The slack has to be taken up by people braver than the deserter. How would you feel if the guy who took your place got killed?

Deserting is a purely selfish act. Putting others at risk for your own personal safety. There's no honor or respect in that.

If someone got killed that took over my job I don't think I would feel guilty or anything, he signed up to put himself in danger, not my fault.


I don't think deserting is selfish. People just realize its not what they want. Its better for those people to not be in the military.

 

[NightWarrior]

AEF, you make me worry about your generation. When you enlist, you make a 8 year committment. Its pretty clear. Its a contract between you and the government. Why should someone be allowed to just quit at a whim? Why even have contract law?

I'm appalled that you think it would be "ok" for someone to quit something just because they found out they couldn't hack it. Our country is in dire straights if this is the case.

 

[All Else Failed]

AEF, you make me worry about your generation. When you enlist, you make a 8 year committment. Its pretty clear. Its a contract between you and the government. Why should someone be allowed to just quit at a whim? Why even have contract law?

I'm appalled that you think it would be "ok" for someone to quit something just because they found out they couldn't hack it. Our country is in dire straights if this is the case.

There's more than enough people that are willing to sign up to go to other countries and die, the people whio leave are a small percentage, so its nothing to worry about. Personally, I think you have to be nuts to want to enlist right now, unless you are incredibly poor and need money.

 

[dt3]

Personally, I think you have to be nuts to want to enlist right now, unless you are incredibly poor and need money.

Of course you do. I already covered that.

Responsibility. Honor. Courage. Commitment. Duty. Esprit de Corps. I know those are all just words to you and you'll never understand what they mean the way these people do.

 

[All Else Failed]

Of course you do. I already covered that.

you can have all of those things outside of the military. I have a feeling that most people don't sign up for that, though.

 

[dt3]

you can have all of those things outside of the military. I have a feeling that most people don't sign up for that, though.

I can only speak for myself. But there's a lot of military on this site, I'd be interested to see what they have to say about why they enlisted.

College: I took 3 classes in 5 years, so it wasn't that.
Money: I'm just as broke as when I enlisted, so it wasn't that.
No other options: I got accepted to UF and FSU, so it wasn't that.
9/11: Signed up a month before, so it wasn't that.
The way I was raised: Neither of my parents wanted me to enlist, so it wasn't that.

So what was it then?

I enlisted because I wanted to. I did it because it's what I thought (and still think) was right. I didn't want to go the rest of my life relying on others to protect me when I couldn't do it myself.

 

[All Else Failed]

I can only speak for myself. But there's a lot of military on this site, I'd be interested to see what they have to say about why they enlisted.

College: I took 3 classes in 5 years, so it wasn't that.
Money: I'm just as broke as when I enlisted, so it wasn't that.
No other options: I got accepted to UF and FSU, so it wasn't that.
9/11: Signed up a month before, so it wasn't that.
The way I was raised: Neither of my parents wanted me to enlist, so it wasn't that.

So what was it then?

I enlisted because I wanted to. I did it because it's what I thought (and still think) was right. I didn't want to go the rest of my life relying on others to protect me when I couldn't do it myself.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I think there are people such as yourself that inlist because they feel a calling of some sort.

 

[NightWarrior]

Hey Donnie, you ever watch the show "The Unit"? Even though its the "Army", I like the topics covered in that show because it doesn't always involve the missions.

 

[All Else Failed]

I've seen that.

 

[dt3]

Hey Donnie, you ever watch the show "The Unit"? Even though its the "Army", I like the topics covered in that show because it doesn't always involve the missions.

I haven't yet, but I've heard nothing but good things. I'll have to pick up the DVD's some day.