I KNOW God Exists!!!!

[MainerMikeBrown]

I hate it when someone says that they "know" that they're religion is the one that has it right.

Meanwhile, probably every religion has members of it who claim they also "know" that their religion is the only one that's right.

 

[doombug]

They say that their must be a God. Otherwise, how could we exist if there was no God?

But if that's the case, then who created God?

Then they'll state that God has always existed.

But how could something always exist? It had to start existing at some point. Something always existing doesn't make sense to me.

It's a simple concept really. Look at the evidence:

According to the book of Genesis:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This seems to say that God was acting before time when He created the universe. Several verses from the New Testament seem to say that God was acting before time began, and so, He created time, along with the other dimensions of our universe:

1 Corinthians 2:7: No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

2 Timothy 1:9: This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time

Titus 1:2: The hope of eternal life, which God... promised before the beginning of time

Jude 1:25: To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

But wait! what does science say:

When Stephen Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose extended the equations for general relativity to include space and time, the results showed that time has a beginning - at the moment of creation.

This tells me that God exists outside of time and was operating before the creation of time. We live in a universe of cause and effect and can only relate to time as it applies to us. It is natural for humans to think of what is considered our fourth dimenson, time, and cause and effect. This is a false premise. Without the "time dimension" there is no cause and effect. Everything that exists outside this realm would have no need for being caused but would exist. There is no need for God being created. The time dimension was created for humans so cause and effect would exist in our world. So if God created time, cause and effect doesn't apply to His existence.

 

[Alien Allen]

It's a simple concept really. Look at the evidence:

According to the book of Genesis:

you lose all credibility in a matter of one sentence

So it all boils down to a book?

And we are do accept the book as the absolute truth

And ignore that which we can feel, see, reach, touch and understand with our learning abilites.

If it comes down to a book then what makes the Bible any more credible than Mein Kamph to be guided by??

 

[MainerMikeBrown]

I also hate it when someone says the "know" God exists, because religious beliefs about God are just that, beliefs.

 

[doombug]

you lose all credibility in a matter of one sentence

So it all boils down to a book?

And we are do accept the book as the absolute truth

And ignore that which we can feel, see, reach, touch and understand with our learning abilites.

If it comes down to a book then what makes the Bible any more credible than Mein Kamph to be guided by??

Did you read the entire post? Go back and look at the part where I write what science claims. Do you disagree with what those scientists say about time having a beginning?

It doesn't depend only on a book. Here is what some professors have said:

"Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago." Tom Parisi, Northern Illinois University

"The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything." Stuart Robbins, Case Western Reserve University.

"The dominant idea of Cosmology is that the Universe had a beginning." Adam Frank, University of Rochester Department of Physics & Astronomy.

"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago." Stephen Hawking

 

[Minor Axis]

For the reading comprehension impaired: It seems reasonable someone else could believe this way but as for me I don't buy it.

I believe in looking for truth. Many people only look to justify what they want to believe despite the truth.

You'll look very hard to find real truth in faith. Good luck.

 

[doombug]

You'll look very hard to find real truth in faith. Good luck.

I find truth by looking around with an open mind. Where do you get that I look for truth in faith?

 

[Minor Axis]

I find truth by looking around with an open mind. Where do you get that I look for truth in faith?

You've been in this forum asking for "truth" and "proof" in a religious discussion. Case closed.

 

[Niamh]

The only real truth is, no one knows if there is a God, where,why and how everything started etc etc. People may believe alot of things but no one on this planet knows for sure.

 

[Minor Axis]

The only real truth is, no one knows if there is a God, where,why and how everything started etc etc. People may believe alot of things but no one on this planet knows for sure.

Absolutely. With our dearth of "God" knowledge, the best thing is to live a good life and hope for the best.

 

[Panacea]

Absolutely. With our dearth of "God" knowledge, the best thing is to live a good life and hope for the best.

Ahhhh but that's intellectual laziness! One should ramble about and assert ramshackle assumptions as truths instead, that's the intellectual thing to do!

 

[Niamh]

Absolutely. With our dearth of "God" knowledge, the best thing is to live a good life and hope for the best.

Yeah, pretty much. People should try to just enjoy this life and not dwell too much on what happens after, as imo, it's probably the only life we'll have.

 

[Tim]

I find truth by looking around with an open mind. Where do you get that I look for truth in faith?

If you look for truth in the bible, you are looking for truth in faith.

I need to ask you a question... Do you believe in the bible? And if so, to what degree? Do you believe that everything in the bible is true and literal? Like creation happened in only 6 days and the earth is only 6000 years old?

 

[doombug]

You've been in this forum asking for "truth" and "proof" in a religious discussion. Case closed.

And I see no one really has any answers. When a topic gets to a certain point many here throw up thier hands unless there is bible bashing involved. Many here seem to claim they are "agnostics" but aren't really open minded enough to discuss possibilities. That leads me to believe the ones who claim to be "agnostics" are really just angry atheists and Christian haters who don't believe in anything and can't back up what they say.

 

[doombug]

If you look for truth in the bible, you are looking for truth in faith.

I need to ask you a question... Do you believe in the bible? And if so, to what degree? Do you believe that everything in the bible is true and literal? Like creation happened in only 6 days and the earth is only 6000 years old?

Those are reasonable questions to ask but I would like to hear from MainerMikeBrown on what he thinks about my response before I go further.

 

[Panacea]

And I see no one really has any answers. When a topic gets to a certain point many here throw up thier hands unless there is bible bashing involved. Many here seem to claim they are "agnostics" but aren't really open minded enough to discuss possibilities. That leads me to believe the ones who claim to "agnostics" are really just angry atheists and Christian haters who don't believe in anything and can't back up what they say.

No one's angry, I think most everyone is amused.
And like most people who take an entirely ambiguous stance against agnosticism and atheism, you never actually say anything at all. There is no argument, nothing to back up whatsoever.

There was a poster here a while ago who was a strict follower of the bible god. Despite most people disagreeing with him, there were challenging and interesting conversations because he was open to having them and presented actual arguments.

You say you have an open mind, I think it's because your brain ran busted out of your skull and scampered off, not because you're actually open to changing or challenging your point of view.

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves." Most of this banter is not reason, and there is no progress. It's a joke, so people crack jokes, and the bible is an easy target for jokes.

Discussing the possibilities of the creation of the universe is best left for a night with friends smoking pot. It's highly abstract and personal, with a lot of room for really interesting insights and points, but Yahweh stories are dead. They cannot grow. They assume all we need to know about the universe is clearly spelled out, and that's bullshit.

 

[doombug]

No one's angry, I think most everyone is amused.
And like most people who take an entirely ambiguous stance against agnosticism and atheism, you never actually say anything at all. There is no argument, nothing to back up whatsoever.

I'm glad to see you have worked up the courage to finally address me directly..kudos to you.

I went back and examined this thread and see you have contributed very little if anything at all. I have at least offered an opinion in response to a statement I consider invalid. So if I "never actually say anything at all" as you claim then you say even less. You did start a thread on a good topic lately but most of the interesting posts were made by others. You only made a few posts before resorting to your empty one line space filler posts, which is the norm for you.

There was a poster here a while ago who was a strict follower of the bible god. Despite most people disagreeing with him, there were challenging and interesting conversations because he was open to having them and presented actual arguments.

Of course you are more comfortable with someone who believes this way. Your circular logic is designed for such conversations and "arguments". But if you truly believe in your "philosophy" then it should stand up to whoever wants to discuss it.

You say you have an open mind, I think it's because your brain ran busted out of your skull and scampered off, not because you're actually open to changing or challenging your point of view.

It is clear you are not open minded. You are the one protesting even having discussions or act as though you can't be bothered with such things.

"Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves." Most of this banter is not reason, and there is no progress. It's a joke, so people crack jokes, and the bible is an easy target for jokes.

What I see is when a point is raised contrary to the "group think" on this forum there is a piling on by the forum gang to prevent the discussion from going further. That is the main reason for no progress here. The majority of this forum are so afraid to be proven wrong they gang up on anyone who has a valid argument.

Discussing the possibilities of the creation of the universe is best left for a night with friends smoking pot.

This explains alot. Your bullshit might actually make sense to someone who is stoned out of their gourd.
Perhaps this is why you don't make very many posts of substance. Could it be that your brain is clogged with bong resin?

It's highly abstract and personal, with a lot of room for really interesting insights and points, but Yahweh stories are dead. They cannot grow. They assume all we need to know about the universe is clearly spelled out, and that's bullshit.

Nah, I disagree.

 

[doombug]

They say that their must be a God. Otherwise, how could we exist if there was no God?

But if that's the case, then who created God?

Then they'll state that God has always existed.

But how could something always exist? It had to start existing at some point. Something always existing doesn't make sense to me.

The question of "who created God" is a fallacy. The only thing that "had to start at some point" is our universe, according to science.

Science also indicates there are more dimensions in existence than what we can detect as humans.

God has no need to have been created, since He exists either outside time, where cause and effect do not operate, or within multiple dimensions of time, such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time. Hence God is eternal, having never been created.

 

[Tim]

The question of "who created God" is a fallacy. The only thing that "had to start at some point" is our universe, according to science.
Science also indicates there are more dimensions in existence than what we can detect as humans.

Either you don't understand science or your reading comprehension is severely lacking.
Science does NOT say that the universe "Had to start at some point"
Science does NOT indicate that there are more dimensions in existence than what we can detect as humans.

What science does is put forth theories that are most likely, they are not facts. If you ask a scientist if the universe had a beginning and he will never say yes or no, he will indicate that the facts point to a beginning but no one knows.
This is the difference between science and religion. Scientist will always accept new theories if new facts are brought to light. Where as religion works off a dead book. There will NEVER be any new facts about god, only what's written in the bible.

I even re-posted your quotes. Read them again and show me where it says that science knows that the universe had a beginning.

"Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago." Tom Parisi, Northern Illinois University

"The Big Bang model of the universe's birth is the most widely accepted model that has ever been conceived for the scientific origin of everything." Stuart Robbins, Case Western Reserve University.

"The dominant idea of Cosmology is that the Universe had a beginning." Adam Frank, University of Rochester Department of Physics & Astronomy.

"The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago." Stephen Hawking

 

[Panacea]

I'm glad to see you have worked up the courage to finally address me directly..kudos to you.

You call it courage, I call it masochism...I'd certainly hear more intelligent things from the back end of my Pomeranian than you, but, here goes.

I went back and examined this thread and see you have contributed very little if anything at all. I have at least offered an opinion in response to a statement I consider invalid. So if I "never actually say anything at all" as you claim then you say even less. You did start a thread on a good topic lately but most of the interesting posts were made by others. You only made a few posts before resorting to your empty one line space filler posts, which is the norm for you.

I agree with the video, and said so. Fin. It's a lovely display of logic and openness; rejecting absolutist arguments and closed beliefs. It is fair, as well; addressing not only religious but non-religious illogical statements. I'd only ask it be directed at all religions, because it's Western bias shows, but we're all sucked into the cult of Christianity in the US.

Of course you are more comfortable with someone who believes this way. Your circular logic is designed for such conversations and "arguments". But if you truly believe in your "philosophy" then it should stand up to whoever wants to discuss it.

I suggest you go back and look through some of the old threads in this section. A lot was said and hashed over. You're late to the party, so to speak. I don't always agree with Alice in Chains, for instance, but his threads have brought up new topics and have been pretty useful. Your song and dance is stale. Sorry, it's just boring.

It is clear you are not open minded. You are the one protesting even having discussions or act as though you can't be bothered with such things.

I struggle to think you're worth talking to, is all. I have you on ignore, which is why I don't respond to you often. I gave you a shot when you first started posting, but you proved useless. Say something interesting, I dare you.

What I see is when a point is raised contrary to the "group think" on this forum there is a piling on by the forum gang to prevent the discussion from going further. That is the main reason for no progress here. The majority of this forum are so afraid to be proven wrong they gang up on anyone who has a valid argument.

I don't think any of us on this forum agree 100% about religion, so there is no solid group think going on. We all differ to some degree. People with bad arguments get hopped on. It seems the dominant opinion is one of logic, and I won't apologize for that.

This explains alot. Your bullshit might actually make sense to someone who is stoned out of their gourd.
Perhaps this is why you don't make very many posts of substance. Could it be that your brain is clogged with bong resin?

Never smoked anything in my life; brain is healthy and active.