Heck, he may not even have existed

[HK]

Oh I'm not expecting people not to make mistakes. That's the whole point - the government is not there to wrap us all in cotton wool and stop us falling prey to the big bad cult - like I said, if you're gullible enough in the first place to get mixed up in that sort of thing then it's your own problem. We need to make our own mistakes in order to grow and learn.

I'm also not saying we shouldn't help people who fall on hard times for whatever reason - but help does not equal the government standing in front of us to try and block every single possible negative experience in life.

Besides 'the government' is just a collection of people like everyone else out there, they aren't somehow blessed with magical powers of logic and seeing through bullshit. If they started outlawing and eradicating anything that disagreed with their collective beliefs because 'it's good for the public and lord knows they can't look out for themselves', society would be in uproar. People have the right to be stupid as hell with their own lives if they aren't hurting others after all.

 

[Xeno]

Oh I'm not expecting people not to make mistakes. That's the whole point - the government is not there to wrap us all in cotton wool and stop us falling prey to the big bad cult - like I said, if you're gullible enough in the first place to get mixed up in that sort of thing then it's your own problem. We need to make our own mistakes in order to grow and learn.

I'm also not saying we shouldn't help people who fall on hard times for whatever reason - but help does not equal the government standing in front of us to try and block every single possible negative experience in life.

Besides 'the government' is just a collection of people like everyone else out there, they aren't somehow blessed with magical powers of logic and seeing through bullshit. If they started outlawing and eradicating anything that disagreed with their collective beliefs because 'it's good for the public and lord knows they can't look out for themselves', society would be in uproar. People have the right to be stupid as hell with their own lives if they aren't hurting others after all.

I agree...people do have the right to do what they want with their own lives, but I was merely speaking about those are being forced after joining a cult. I believe they should be given a chance to be free in a sense. As far the government goes, I believe that they are not all "knowing" and "magical", but in the same turn should at least take steps to protect the next group of people from falling pray to those scam artists or cults altogether. Though I see your logic in that people shall do as they please no matter what we may do in a sense. I just still believe it is a step worth taking and it might have an effect on the number of people willing to make those mistakes.

 

[HK]

Well, define scam artists. Scientologists genuinely believe they are right. So who are we, or anyone, to say they shouldn't be allowed to practice what they believe, so long as they aren't hurting anyone unwillingly? Yeah, it's fairly obvious to the outside world that Scientology and other cults are a big waste of time, but some people really believe in it.

The point is, you can't take anyone someone's right to join whatever cult or group they choose, just because it looks stupid to us. I agree that it's ridiculous that people join them, I don't see how they can be so freaking gullible, but it's still their decision. If we had an entirely Christian government, they might decide Buddhism was ridiculous and shouldn't be practiced. For our own good of course. It just doesn't work that way.

And aside from anything else, people should have to take responsibility for their own stupid actions as well. It's no good if people could just shout 'it's the governments fault for not warning me about that crazy cult!' Well, use your own head.

 

[Xeno]

Well, define scam artists. Scientologists genuinely believe they are right. So who are we, or anyone, to say they shouldn't be allowed to practice what they believe, so long as they aren't hurting anyone unwillingly? Yeah, it's fairly obvious to the outside world that Scientology and other cults are a big waste of time, but some people really believe in it.

The point is, you can't take anyone someone's right to join whatever cult or group they choose, just because it looks stupid to us. I agree that it's ridiculous that people join them, I don't see how they can be so freaking gullible, but it's still their decision. If we had an entirely Christian government, they might decide Buddhism was ridiculous and shouldn't be practiced. For our own good of course. It just doesn't work that way.

And aside from anything else, people should have to take responsibility for their own stupid actions as well. It's no good if people could just shout 'it's the governments fault for not warning me about that crazy cult!' Well, use your own head.

Firstly, before one can talk about Scientology one must first know the religion, origin, and crime being committed in that "church". The religion is based off of that we can achieve or enhance our "superpowers" through torturous sessions of being starved, mentally as well as physically abused, and controlled in every aspect of our lives. The origin of this "practice" or "religion" comes from someone who wrote science fiction novels and was know for being corrupt. To add to the list, they have killed numerous people who, indeed, wanted to be free from them. Nothing whatsoever was done to stop the "church" from continuing it's so called "practices". I am not saying the government should put an official ban on cults, but to perhaps have more of an insight for the people within in this nation on what they are really joining. Do not say that every cult welcomes you in with open arms while saying, "We are going to use you, abuse you, and perhaps kill you when we are done with you." You can easily say people are ignorant and should know better, but that would be like deeming a rape victim moronic for having worked at a prison where he/she may have been assaulted. The common sense dangers signs are clear there as it is in a cult, but it is no excuse for the brutality one may endure while there nor is it acceptable to be harmed within a cult no matter the choice the person may have made on their very own. The only difference is that it is made clear of the actual dangers that may lurk within a prison. Nothing is being done to warn people about certain cults because most cults are now being deemed as legit churches by our own government. That is why it is their responsibility when all is said and done. Though it is our choice to do as we please in today's society it is our government's responsibility to at least keep us aware of dangers might lurk within these cults as they warn us on other things that are at times common sense. The point, if anything, is that the people in office took the positions they were given knowing full well what responsibilities befell them while in office. So, instead of making excuses for them as it seems and blaming so called "ignorant" people, you should realize that it is the governments job to keep us aware no matter people's choices. Again I am not saying that we should be forced into making decisions not to join a cult, but to be kept aware of what threat it may pose on us. Just as a fry cook's job is to make fries it is our government's job to keep an eye on the dangers in this nation and keep us alert. Again, merely informing us. Those are just my own personal views though as always.

 

[HK]

Wall of green text crits for 9k

What insight should the government provide into cults, exactly? Practically everyone in the developed world has access to the internet, there's no excuse for not looking into something you're unsure about and again, it is your responsibility if you go into something blind when you absolutely had the tools to research it.

I think the government has enough problems trying to stop people drink driving and teenagers having unprotected sex to worry about the minority that will let themselves get brainwashed by the idea of eternal happiness in the afterlife. I notice it's now changed from 'the government should protect us' to 'the government should keep us informed'.

Most people have the common sense to not need the government to push every bit of information directly into their hands. The minority that actually need someone to say 'look, if they ask for money in exchange for promises that won't apply till after you're dead, it's probably a scam' perhaps shouldn't be let out of their houses alone.

 

[Xeno]

Wall of green text crits for 9k

What insight should the government provide into cults, exactly? Practically everyone in the developed world has access to the internet, there's no excuse for not looking into something you're unsure about and again, it is your responsibility if you go into something blind when you absolutely had the tools to research it.

I think the government has enough problems trying to stop people drink driving and teenagers having unprotected sex to worry about the minority that will let themselves get brainwashed by the idea of eternal happiness in the afterlife. I notice it's now changed from 'the government should protect us' to 'the government should keep us informed'.

Most people have the common sense to not need the government to push every bit of information directly into their hands. The minority that actually need someone to say 'look, if they ask for money in exchange for promises that won't apply till after you're dead, it's probably a scam' perhaps shouldn't be let out of their houses alone.

Again, I have to agree with you for the most part. It is always good to see from another person's point of view and learn in the process. I see where you are coming from actually, but I still crack down hard on the government because that is where the responsibility legally lies so to speak. However, I do understand and agree that more people should look into these things before making a decision. The government can only do so much I suppose, but I am still at conflict with them making certain cults legit and then calling them churches. That does not help the matter one bit either. I suppose this is one of those situations where we agree to disagree for the most part even though I do agree with some aspects of your opinion. Very Kewlie Kewl discussion.

Also...

...it was exactly what I was thinking actually when I posted my opinion. That sure is a lot of green for a post.

 

[BornReady]

People have the right to be stupid as hell with their own lives if they aren't hurting others after all.

I agree. And that includes not hurting their children. Children shouldn't be denied proper medical care because their parents are nuts. If someone is guilty of child abuse then custody of the child should be given to someone else and the abuser should be required to pay child support... I don't care what their religion is. Also the law should apply to everyone equally... again I don't care what their religion is. If Christians can't use drugs then neither should native Americans be allowed. Of course, I think everyone should be allowed. As a wise woman said:

People have the right to be stupid as hell with their own lives if they aren't hurting others after all.

 

[Xeno]

I agree. And that includes not hurting their children. Children shouldn't be denied proper medical care because their parents are nuts. If someone is guilty of child abuse then custody of the child should be given to someone else and the abuser should be required to pay child support... I don't care what their religion is. Also the law should apply to everyone equally... again I don't care what their religion is. If Christians can't use drugs then neither should native Americans be allowed. Of course, I think everyone should be allowed. As a wise woman said:

Though, I truly believe no one is automatically born "stupid as hell" no matter who or what they are overall. So it does not hurt to try and help your fellow "man", but it still holds true. You can not help someone that does not want help.

 

[BornReady]

Though, I truly believe no one is automatically born "stupid as hell" no matter who or what they are overall. So it does not hurt to try and help your fellow "man", but it still holds true. You can not help someone that does not want help.

Yeah, I'm all for compassion and trying to educate people to help them make wise choices. But we should allow them to make the choice.

 

[Xeno]

Yeah, I'm all for compassion and trying to educate people to help them make wise choices. But we should allow them to make the choice.

Very true. The world would be even worse if there was no freedom to make decisions that we may feel is right in our lives. I am all about the freedom of humanity to be quite honest.

 

[beLIEve]

Jezus really did live, but the man was a liar. He only wanted fame. This idea came when he heard about Simon. Simon was a man who sacrifised for his people and took upon all the blame, so he was crusified. I dont remember from where Simon is but I know it starts with a P. So anyways Jezus wanted to do so too. So he went to a local market, started a riot. The riot was started because of the high taxes. Jezus gathered a few followeres (the apostales). So the riot rezulted in the arrest of Jezus and his crusification. The rest of the story is blown up. I heard this from latest reaserch and the new findings in Jeruzalam. Maybe its true maybe not. Dont really care.

 

[Xeno]

Jezus really did live, but the man was a liar. He only wanted fame. This idea came when he heard about Simon. Simon was a man who sacrifised for his people and took upon all the blame, so he was crusified. I dont remember from where Simon is but I know it starts with a P. So anyways Jezus wanted to do so too. So he went to a local market, started a riot. The riot was started because of the high taxes. Jezus gathered a few followeres (the apostales). So the riot rezulted in the arrest of Jezus and his crusification. The rest of the story is blown up. I heard this from latest reaserch and the new findings in Jeruzalam. Maybe its true maybe not. Dont really care.

A bit contradictive on your part since you took the time to give your opinion on the matter. You seem to care enough to post your thoughts. Just observing as usual.