Group Objects To Nativity Scene At Arkansas Capitol

[All Else Failed]

So?

Is there a law in the land that states specifically that you cannot put up holiday displays? Seeing as the vast majority of this nation does claim to be some sort of Christian denomination, why not let this occur? It's celebrating "the reason for the season", or so the billboards tell me.

Now, if the local government actually block Jewish, Hindu, Muslim or whatever displays when the request is put forward to do so, then they would be supporting one religion over another and yes, you would be correct in saying that they are "promoting one religion over another"

its against the law?

 

[hubersrj]

Seperation of Church and State was created to ensure that freedom of religion reigned supreme. That's why the original colonists came over, religious freedom.

Now, if you let a government say there is only one religion allowed, or if you let one religion make all the governmental decisions, then you have a problem.

There's no politician in Arkansas marching up and down Main Street, Little Rock saying "Christianity or nothing", so why are we sweating this?

 

[All Else Failed]

Seperation of Church and State was created to ensure that freedom of religion reigned supreme. That's why the original colonists came over, religious freedom.

Now, if you let a government say there is only one religion allowed, or if you let one religion make all the governmental decisions, then you have a problem.

There's no politician in Arkansas marching up and down Main Street, Little Rock saying "Christianity or nothing", so why are we sweating this?

No, I'm saying that you have the right to display whatever you want on your property. Once you bring it onto public grounds, then it's everyone's business.


I also hardly think many Christians would like Islamic decorations and maybe a pentacle near their little baby jesus.

 

[hubersrj]

its against the law?

What part is against the law? Did they say no to the local Jewish synagogue for a minorah display? That wasn't mentioned, so I'm going to assume that this is simply one group trying to get heard and they're taking advantage of someplace in Arkansas, a predominately Christian area, for having a Nativity scene on state grounds. It's only illegal if there's a state law saying it's illegal and if they discriminated against other religions by not allowing them to present a display of their own for the season.

 

[hubersrj]

No, I'm saying that you have the right to display whatever you want on your property. Once you bring it onto public grounds, then it's everyone's business.


I also hardly think many Christians would like Islamic decorations and maybe a pentacle near their little baby jesus.

Well seeing that this wasn't brought up, I have no answer for you...but correct me if I'm wrong: the group that has an issue with this is not from Arkansas, correct?

 

[All Else Failed]

I've already been over this.....if its state owned land, they have the responsibility to not endorse religion. If they do that, they are breaking the law of the land.

 

[hubersrj]

But the States have the right to dictate Federal Law as they see fit. The federal government can only impose sanctions, ie. withhold Federal money, from the State if they don't uphold the Federal law. Why do you think that all the states are just recently enforcing the "click it or ticket" thing? If they didn't, they'd lose money towards highway improvements.

I can also guarantee you that the current Supreme Court will not touch this issue. They've avoided every other freedom of religion case, they'll avoid this one as well.

 

[Pudding Time]

I've already been over this.....if its state owned land, they have the responsibility to not endorse religion. If they do that, they are breaking the law of the land.

No their not, what so ever. They have the right to freedom of religious expression. What don't you understand about that?

 

[Pudding Time]

Yeah, they can show it publically on their own property, not public property.

If the public property is owned by any form of government, such as the state, they cannot endorse any one religion.

its against the law?

What law?

I'd really like to see what law says there can not be free religious expression on public propety.

 

[Breath]

What law?

I'd really like to see what law says there can not be free religious expression on public propety.

Look up the concept of Separation of Church and State. A google search will show you plenty. It stems from the First Amendment to the US constitution, as I said previously. All states follow this guideline. It's PC at the moment.

 

[All Else Failed]

Neither state or local government:

1. 1. Can set up a church
   2. Can pass laws that aid one religion, all religions, or favor one religion over another
   3. Can force a person to attend or stay away from church, or believe in any religion
   4. Cannot punish a person for holding or professing religious beliefs
   5. Cannot levy a tax, in any amount, to support any religious activities or institutions.
   6. Can openly or secretly participate in the affairs of any religious organization, or vice-versa.

 

[Pudding Time]

Look up the concept of Separation of Church and State. A google search will show you plenty. It stems from the First Amendment to the US constitution, as I said previously. All states follow this guideline. It's PC at the moment.

I just posted the 1st Amendment.

 

[Pudding Time]

Neither state or local government:

1. 1. Can set up a church
   2. Can pass laws that aid one religion, all religions, or favor one religion over another
   3. Can force a person to attend or stay away from church, or believe in any religion
   4. Cannot punish a person for holding or professing religious beliefs
   5. Cannot levy a tax, in any amount, to support any religious activities or institutions.
   6. Can openly or secretly participate in the affairs of any religious organization, or vice-versa.

Firstly, unless you create the laws of this land, please don't assume your word is as good as a credible citation. Post a link.

Ok. Nothing there says no freedom of religious expression on public property.

What you emphasized says the government can't participate in religious expression. Like I said earlier, I'm not happy with the location of the Nativity Scene, yet had they been somewhere else on public property other than a government location, I'd be happy with that.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm actually all for public displays, as long as they include ALL cultural symbols.

 

[Pudding Time]

I'm actually all for public displays, as long as they include ALL cultural symbols.

:wtf:

I was joking.

The yule tree is pretty much a universal sign that many cultures use to symbolize the NEW YEAR. It has nothing to do with religion, and therefore its ok. BUT, when you start putting blatant religious scenes on public property, which shouldn't be done, then you start to make it everyone's business, since the public isn't under one religion/culture.

Except they stand by the saying of "the day Christ was born". Which is a lie.


This isn't "PC" crap, its a dispute in law. You can't have religious things on PUBLIC property. Even if the majority of the country is "Christian". The government is a secular entity, it was intentionally made that way.

 

[All Else Failed]

:wtf:

That way they are merely displaying all cultural symbols, and not discriminating, or endorsing one over all. Thats my main problem, favoritism.

 

[dt3]

Look up the concept of Separation of Church and State.

Concept is the key word. It's never explicitly said in the Constitution, it's an interpretation thing. If I remember correctly, the phrase stemmed from a letter from Jefferson to John Adams or something.

 

[Breath]

Concept is the key word. It's never explicitly said in the Constitution, it's an interpretation thing. If I remember correctly, the phrase stemmed from a letter from Jefferson to John Adams or something.

He speaketh the truth say I.

 

[Peter Parka]

I guess a lot of this is about how far you want to take things. If you want to be pedantic about it, making Christmas a national holiday is favouring one religion over others. Unfortunately there are a lot of pedantic people around which is why you end up with so many laws because of the need to cut out loopholes. It really is a shame that some people need everything spelt out to them instead of using common sense.